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  • BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    01. 23. 2011 18:24

angus725
Anyway, had to give the thread an interesting name.

The Stalingrad Class Battle Cruiser is the Soviet BB4. It comes with 2 sets of guns,
the triple 12" 1948 set, and a 1914 set of trip 16"s.

Currently lv 89, the same as all other BB4s, this is what I have proposed for the ship.
My ideas on BB3s and below can be referred to on the BB1-3 thread.


A slight introduction to the SN ship lines that I have proposed:
The Izmail line focuses on long range, while Gangut line focuses on high damage. The
weakness of the gangut line is slow, the weakness of the izmail line is durability.
These 2 lines converge on the stalingrad, but will stay "different" lines with the 2
different gunsets. The two playstles further converges at BB5, but the choice still
remains with the introduction of 110 guns, but the difference is small. The BB6 finally
completes this transition, having the best of both, while also having the worst of
both. Superficially, the BC line has a worse BB3 for GB but a better BB2, while the IM
line has a better BB3 with a worse BB2.


The Stalingrad's guns:

The trip 12" guns pattern 1948, comes at level 89. They have H39 range, almost
block shot at level and blockshot at level 100 with accuracy capped gunners. Lower
damage than the current H39's full salvo and more than Kronshtadt with 12" gun's
full salvo (once H39's damage is buffed very slightly, the stalingrad should be well
balanced with H39). 45 degrees high angle (to counteract the range so
H39>Stalingrad). 44 OH with the 12" guns without AA. 5-6 binds of ammo, a fast-for-
BB4 reload would make up for it's lower damage also. With 12" guns, this ship would
not be easy to play for newer folks, as it does little damage and the ship itself cannot
take much damage.

In a FL with these guns, this ship would be the main competitor to the H39 in it's role
of pushing the line. Since the ship is fast, it can harass ships such as the Iowa,
Yamato, and Lion 1, then run away with better speed. It would be defeated by the
Vanguard, which is able to easily take one of it's salvos, then counter rush with 30
degree guns and 42kn OH, and be able to fight it out with the H39, as the H39 does
have lower degree guns with slightly more damage, and better AA.


The trip 16"s at level 91 (notice how original BB4s get Ns at level 89, then Ls at level
91). The 16" guns has Yamato range, between Yamato and Iowa damage, 40 degree
max angle, and 39kn or 40kn OH with 3 guns without AA. Spread would be similar to
Yamato
spread, both at level and high level. With these guns, the Stalingrad should be an
easier ship to play, and much more BB styled, but not necessarily better.

In a GB, these guns would be the better choice due to the higher damage, and the
fact it would be easier to aim with a 40degree max angle. The speed has not been
killed, but it is greatly reduced from 44kn.

In a FL, it would act similar to an Iowa currently, but with less armor penetration,
higher damage, more fragile, and similar AA and speeds.


This ship would be the crossover between the Kronshtadt (with 12" guns) and the IM
(with 16" guns). You either have good speed and long range, or damage and
moderate range. Not both, as for a BB4, it would make it overpowered. You're also
almost getting 2 ships at once, as with the 2 gun sets, the playstyle would be
radically different.


The ship should be fragile for a BB4 (around H39 and Yamato). Repair rate seems to
be fine right now. Current submergence needs to be reduced greatly, weight of guns
(both sets) decreased so that the ship can reach the speeds described above,
damage on both sets adjusted, and angles re-adjusted.

More opinions the better :)
  Index

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 19. 2011 06:04

ljsevern
"I was wondering if it should go 40kn with less range than it has now, but here's a
quote from DarkGM

"Range changes are not an option anymore".

The speed will have to stay at 39 in that case."

>>> Do they know how fucked up the BB6, the BB5 110 and the 12" BB4 ranges are?
Just
going to say this right now; Nice job Angus...

-------------------------------------------------------

"Again, range cannot be changed anymore; it appears that we've ran out of time with
SN. The balance deadline+release date has been pretty much set in stone by SDE
management also. TBH, I feel responsible for this, as if there was any one person
who could have balanced SN, and had the time and influence to, it was me."

>>>
Evidentally, you couldn't. You had the time and influence, but no offense, you didn't
have the ability. If the patch comes out as it is on the test server... my god. Why level
another BB5? Get H44 Range and Montana damage on the Sovietsky. Why level another
BB4? Get BB5 range, blockshot, fantastic armour penetration and better damage than
H39 and Vanny...

It is an absolute joke that the Test team was so inactive.

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 18. 2011 21:11

angus725
"We have one change to make a BB4 with 2 gunsets work, lets use that chance."

>>>
We have told you time and time again. It doesn't. One gunset has to be better than
the
other. There isn't enough room for a second tier, so one gunset won't be up to
scratch.

Maybe if you poured your time into CV's, and not making a ship into something you
want another to be.


CVs are getting done this weekend, MM is trying to contact V2C apparently for it.


-----------------------------------------------------

"It's sprite and hitbox is also battlecruiser. With the 12" guns, it should be faster
than
the 16"s, if only by 1 kn."

>>>
Who cares if it is a battlecruiser. It makes NO difference ingame. The sprite is what it
is, it is sized like a BB4. I never said 12" guns shouldn't be faster, but 40 and over is
a
no no for the SN BB4. I would argue it is a no no for BB3+.


I was wondering if it should go 40kn with less range than it has now, but here's a
quote from DarkGM

"Range changes are not an option anymore".

The speed will have to stay at 39 in that case.

-----------------------------------------------------

"You ideas is to get rid of the 12" guns and make the 16"s almost identical to the
yamato guns...except the yamato has better AA, speed, and damage."

>>>
No. I would fix the 12's but they wouldn't be as good as the 16's overall. But we
don't
have time for that.

My idea would be that the 16's would RANGE the Yamato, be 2nd in the range table,
like the other tiers (BB5 and what BB6 is meant to be). However it would be poor
speed and turning wise.


Again, range cannot be changed anymore; it appears that we've ran out of time with
SN. The balance deadline+release date has been pretty much set in stone by SDE
management also. TBH, I feel responsible for this, as if there was any one person
who could have balanced SN, and had the time and influence to, it was me.

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 18. 2011 20:45

ljsevern
"We have one change to make a BB4 with 2 gunsets work, lets use that chance."

>>>
We have told you time and time again. It doesn't. One gunset has to be better than the
other. There isn't enough room for a second tier, so one gunset won't be up to scratch.

Maybe if you poured your time into CV's, and not making a ship into something you
want another to be.

-----------------------------------------------------

"It's sprite and hitbox is also battlecruiser. With the 12" guns, it should be faster than
the 16"s, if only by 1 kn."

>>>
Who cares if it is a battlecruiser. It makes NO difference ingame. The sprite is what it
is, it is sized like a BB4. I never said 12" guns shouldn't be faster, but 40 and over is a
no no for the SN BB4. I would argue it is a no no for BB3+.

-----------------------------------------------------

"You ideas is to get rid of the 12" guns and make the 16"s almost identical to the
yamato guns...except the yamato has better AA, speed, and damage."

>>>
No. I would fix the 12's but they wouldn't be as good as the 16's overall. But we don't
have time for that.

My idea would be that the 16's would RANGE the Yamato, be 2nd in the range table,
like the other tiers (BB5 and what BB6 is meant to be). However it would be poor
speed and turning wise.

---------------------------------------------

"I have yet to test the range, but the range should be the same, not more."

It was part of my balance suggestion Angus.

------------------------------------

"SN can be slow, but the range and damage must make it competitive if it does go so
slow."

Which is why I said it should range Yamato.

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 18. 2011 08:47

angus725
"hmm, so whats the point of 12" guns?"

>>> The main guns are the 16". Other BB4's only have one gunset.

We have one change to make a BB4 with 2 gunsets work, lets use that chance.


and whats the point of having a Battlecruiser as BB4, because in todays situation, 39
knot ship is not a battlecruiser in any way.

>>> Honestly? A BC isn't a BB4. The ships hull is a BB4, so who cares if it shows up
battlecruiser. Balancing as a BB4 > Balancing as a battlecruiser.

It's sprite and hitbox is also battlecruiser. With the 12" guns, it should be faster than
the 16"s, if only by 1 kn.


I was thinking about getting SN on this line, but getting another Yamato/Iowa clone
has
no point for me with 6 BB4s already...guess I can wait for Italians, those will also get
usual Iowa/Yamato clone, but at least their ships were nice(not sure SDE is able to
recreate em nice tho...).

>>> It will not be another clone if the changes I have suggested are implemented.

You ideas is to get rid of the 12" guns and make the 16"s almost identical to the
yamato guns...except the yamato has better AA, speed, and damage.



Btw. 37 knot with 16"? Yamato was that slow and was totally useless. What makes
you
think it will be better with SN ship?

>>> More range than Yamato.

I have yet to test the range, but the range should be the same, not more.


I큟 playing my Iowa with free sailor slots just to keep 42 knots and there will be no
realistic force in the universe to give any kind of chance to a 37 knot SN ship against
that...

>>> SN are meant to be slow. National trait.

SN can be slow, but the range and damage must make it competitive if it does go so
slow.

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 18. 2011 07:45

ljsevern
"hmm, so whats the point of 12" guns?"

>>> The main guns are the 16". Other BB4's only have one gunset.

and whats the point of having a Battlecruiser as BB4, because in todays situation, 39
knot ship is not a battlecruiser in any way.

>>> Honestly? A BC isn't a BB4. The ships hull is a BB4, so who cares if it shows up
battlecruiser. Balancing as a BB4 > Balancing as a battlecruiser.

I was thinking about getting SN on this line, but getting another Yamato/Iowa clone has
no point for me with 6 BB4s already...guess I can wait for Italians, those will also get
usual Iowa/Yamato clone, but at least their ships were nice(not sure SDE is able to
recreate em nice tho...).

>>> It will not be another clone if the changes I have suggested are implemented.

Btw. 37 knot with 16"? Yamato was that slow and was totally useless. What makes you
think it will be better with SN ship?

>>> More range than Yamato.

I큟 playing my Iowa with free sailor slots just to keep 42 knots and there will be no
realistic force in the universe to give any kind of chance to a 37 knot SN ship against
that...

>>> SN are meant to be slow. National trait.

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 18. 2011 00:46

darkWolfCZ
hmm, so whats the point of 12" guns?

and whats the point of having a Battlecruiser as BB4, because in todays situation, 39 knot
ship is not a battlecruiser in any way. I was thinking about getting SN on this line, but
getting another Yamato/Iowa clone has no point for me with 6 BB4s already...guess I can
wait for Italians, those will also get usual Iowa/Yamato clone, but at least their ships
were nice(not sure SDE is able to recreate em nice tho...).

Btw. 37 knot with 16"? Yamato was that slow and was totally useless. What makes you think
it will be better with SN ship?

I큟 playing my Iowa with free sailor slots just to keep 42 knots and there will be no
realistic force in the universe to give any kind of chance to a 37 knot SN ship against
that...

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 17. 2011 21:44

ljsevern
Oh yeah, weren't the 16" changed to 40's? Eugh... Should be back at 45 with the old range
imo.

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 17. 2011 19:23

richardphat
Gun angle wouldn't mess much for the situation we're in now ;)

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 17. 2011 18:56

ljsevern
I'm hoping with this weekend we can figure something out so we can nerf the 12" guns
range to H39 range without screwing up the range on the BB3s.

>>> Muzzle velocity

I wouldn't mind nerfing the 16"s to 37kn as long as it gets the range buff to yamato range.

>>> Like it originally was -.-

  • Re : BC4 Stalingrad - A BattleCruiser?!?!

    02. 17. 2011 12:23

angus725
I think we gave it a huge turning force nerf, nerfed the speed of the 12" guns down to
39kn, and changed the displacement a little. Reload speed was nerfed to...18 seconds I
think. (16" guns nerfed to 19 seconds)

I'm hoping with this weekend we can figure something out so we can nerf the 12" guns
range to H39 range without screwing up the range on the BB3s.

I wouldn't mind nerfing the 16"s to 37kn as long as it gets the range buff to yamato range.
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