Canada just launched it's first stand alone strikes today on the libyan's and blew a whole
ammo depot up.


But anyways, the thing with Iraq and Afgan you have to look at is this:

Afgan:

-Taliban moved in to power after the russians were pushed out
-Taliban did destructive things to the people of that region that didn't agree with them
-Taliban sheltered Al-queda members (nightcrept if you can reverse this point please do)
-Al-queda trained in Afgan, Pakistan, and various other countries.
-Al-queda launched multiple attacks upon the US and it's allies while claiming responsiblity

Iraq:
Well night gave insight into this point already so i won't go any farther since my
opinions will be biased.

What is the long time point of this No-Fly zone that is being enforced by X-Wings?? To
remove Sith Lord Gadaffi or aid the Rebels long enough to take him out by themselves? If
the Rebels cant do it, is NATO going to send in Strom Troopers to take him out?

well i suggest nobody should interfere as it will cause bigger problems
the arab league is not coward, they're just thinking what is the best option to solve the
Libyan problems without the bad effects to the civilians.

and about the war anyway, there is no such thing as good or bad, be it America British
Iraq Afghanistan etc. War is doing something evil in hope that greater good may come out
of it. That is the main purpose of war, but as we all know there should be 'deviation' in
process of doing it like raping womens, murdering civilians, torturing hostages,
defamation through the mass media etc. we all know the governments and some mass media are
more likely to hide facts, they don't want you to see what they don't want you to see. For
example in Palestine, Israel murder not only HAMAS people but some civilians too, that is
what i call 'deviation', in the minds of Palestinians, Israel are the devil that will
torture their life, but in the eyes of Israel people (and some Americans) they were heroes.

what i'm talking about that there is no 'good country' or 'bad country' or 'better country
than~' or 'worse than~' or even 'best' or 'worst country'. Those words are virtual
imagination of each persons (or country) mind, get that concept out of your head first.

the point is if a country has a problem, it's up to the how severe the problems that is
happening', if it severe enough another country may getting itself involved in the
situation but don't get involved too much

no offense :3 just sharing my opinions

I don't know about the 2012 elections, I'm pretty sure it will go to the republicans
depending on who runs. Same goes with the democrats but having Obama would be
a mistake in my opinion. He'd have less funding, the same election strategy wouldn't
work like it did before, and he'd loose quite a few debates. I do think another
democrat would have a better chance then Obama tho.

Where as the republicans would have a hard time, the only chance for the
republicans or democrats would be a near center moderate. If the republicans come
out with a moderate, I think they'd have the election against Obama. If it was a far
right republican against a democratic moderate, then hands down its going to the
moderate.

Though thats all up in the air right now, we have a long way but so far thats my take
on the situation. I get the sense that people are sick of the hardliners, want common
sense and stability, and of course want a affective government that isn't in the red.

I do think Libya will be a minor point in the upcoming elections depending on how it
turns out. Since we aren't committed to it yet and if the rebels win, it would be a
good size feather in Obama's cap. Though it might pale in comparison due to the
other two on going wars and the economy. If the Libya revolution fails, then they can
play it down and everybody would most likely forget about it in a couple of months
and might be mentioned down the road.

I highly doubt this Libya situation will last into 2012 but who knows. If its as short as
predicted the outcome won't effect to much. The long term is what we should worry
about though. Our actions in the Middle East are always under the watchful eye of
the neighbors and our reputation over there isn't good (tho I think its better then
most might think). Not only that, we don't have enough money to do a whole lot
there... We were asked by the Arab League to do a no fly zone and then we bomb
the Libyan army advancing on Behngazi. As much as I wish we weren't involved, the
no fly zone should only be enforced which means no planes and no AA(for allied
safety).

Personally I think the Arab League should do there own damn thing but if the west
didn't step in who'd they blame?

I say a diplomatic fix is needed, I think Obama is in Chile today, he should be in
Europe trying to work some international ties. Not that Chile isn't important but our
diplomatic ties with Chile I believe are quite well, sure we could always improve them
but not now. Vacationing doesn't count as international diplomacy experience, what
does count is meeting, planning, and executing plans with foreign governments on
situations like Libya.

Since we don't want to be there but wish for the neighbors of Libya or European
nations to deal with it, he should be bolstering support with said nations. Sometimes
a little talking and persuading can beat sending a carrier with support ships into the
Med while launching strike missions with aircraft and missiles.

If I were in Obama's position I'd start a media campaign calling the Arab League
cowards and tell the world that even their league is lazy and wonder why they have
it(or something to that affect). Basically provoke them to get involved.

Anything that a coalition is in charge of is doomed to failure due to politics. Trust me
the last place you want to be is working for a international anything.

Obama will be fine his party will back him in the next elections for the simple reason
that he will have the best chances.

Back on topic, it seems like all countries involved in the no fly zone are starting to back
off since no one is willing to take the lead.

It also seems that some of the members of the democratic party are thinking of
impeaching Obama due to his orders on Libya. Personally, I don't really care to see
Obama impeached, though I dislike him, I doubt our country could take the strain. The
more I hear him taking the vacations on our dollar the madder I get but then again
maybe he won't do so much like spending more of our money on stimulus' et al...

On the upside, the White House decided to made a goal for Libya, by trying to making it
a democracy. They also said they didn't want to make it a regime change. How? I don't
know...

That sure is alot of witnesses. I am curious though, why with all the witnesses and
plane debris and such... why wasnt it not all over the TV. I remember watching every
scrap of news about this and didnt get to see any plane debris on TV or any
witnesses stating what they saw? I think that is what my big "hmmm" is about all
this. If there was any of this on TV, I sure dont remember it and millions of other
Americans cant seem to either... since its all over the internet about a missile and
videos of what appears to be a missile. That is my big thing...

You do have some very good information though. I will need to look into this further
before I make up my mind now because to be honest, I am seeing 2 different sides
of this and it is rather confusing.

This statement is rather hard to believe though:

James Cissell: 밒 saw this plane coming in and it was low ?and getting lower. ?Then I
saw the faces of some of the passengers on board.?

William Lagasse: 밒t was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds
had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. ?I saw the aircraft above my
headabout 80 feet above the ground.?

The "plane" was traveling at what, 300? 400mph? I have to wonder how he saw the
faces. And the 2nd statement says the blinds were down. Rather conflicting.

I thank you for all the names of witnesses and the statements. I will look them up
and read further on this I think... good work on both of your informative posts.

@remenents.

Now to address flight 77 that crashed into the pentagon.



1.Article about the remains that where identified and the 5 victims who couldn't be.
http://old.911digitalarchive.org/crr/documents/1276.pdf





2.Article about the black boxes that where found along with a video simulation of the
event that has lots of images of the aircraft debris at the end.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/september01/wash_9-14.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8






3.Witnesses to the event including a FBI interview report.
http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-09-12-FBI-aa-77-call-pentbom.pdf


http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-26.html


http://www.america.gov/st/pubs-english/2005/January
/20050114150603atlahtnevel0.5978662.html






4:Witnesses and Statements. Feel free to google them.

Eyewitness Accounts of Pentagon Attack

Following are some of the numerous eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash:

Richard Benedetto: 밒t was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.?

Omar Campo, a Salvadorean: 밒t was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways
plane. I was cutting grass and it came in screaming over my head.?

Joseph Candelario: 밒 noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House. This
aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed
into it.?

James Cissell: 밒 saw this plane coming in and it was low ?and getting lower. ?Then I
saw the faces of some of the passengers on board.?

Dennis Clem: 밫here was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the
side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon.?

Michael Dobbs: 밒t was an American airlines airliner. I was looking out the window and
saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle.?

Penny Elgas: 뱟 the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car ? I remember
recognizing it as an American Airlines plane ?I could see the windows and the color stripes.?

Cheryl Hammond: 밯e saw the big American Airlines plane and started running.?

Joe Harrington: 뱟 one of my guys pointed to an American Airlines airplane 20 feet high
over Washington Blvd.?

Albert Hemphill: 밫he aircraft, look[ed] to be either a 757 or Airbus.?

Terrance Kean: 밒 saw this very, very large passenger jet. It just plowed right into
the side of the Pentagon.?

William Lagasse: 밒t was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had
been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. ?I saw the aircraft above my head
about 80 feet above the ground.?

Robert Leonard: 밒 ?saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon.?

Lincoln Liebner: 밒 saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low.?

Elaine McCusker: 밒 saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be
accelerating.?

Mitch Mitchell: 밒 ?saw, coming straight down the road at us, a huge jet plane clearly
with American Airlines written on it ? It crossed about 100 feet in front of us and at
about 20 feet altitude and we watched it go in. It struck the Pentagon.?

Terry Morin: 밫he plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage.
I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines.?

Christopher Munsey: 밒 couldn뭪 believe what I was now seeing to my right: a silver,
twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex,
fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon ??

Vin Narayanan: 밒 looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at
me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet.?

John O묷eefe: 밒 don뭪 know whether I saw or heard it first ?this silver plane; I
immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet ??

Steve Riskus: 밒 was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the 멇merican
Airlines?logo on the tail as it headed towards the building . ? I clearly saw the 멇A?
logo with the eagle in the middle.?

James Ryan: 밒 see an American Airlines plane, silver plane, I could see AA on the
tail. ?The plane was low enough that I could see the windows of the plane. I could see
every detail of the plane. In my head I have ingrained forever this image of every detail
of that plane. It was a silver plane, American Airlines plane, and I recognized it
immediately as a passenger plane.?

Joel Sucherman: 뱟 looking straight ahead there was a jet, what looked to be an
American Airlines jet, probably a 757, and it came screaming across the highway ?[and]
hit the west side of the Pentagon.?

Donald 밫im?Timmerman, a pilot: 밒 live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon ?
and so I have quite a panorama. ?It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question.?

Mike Walter: 밒 saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. ?It went
right there and slammed right into the Pentagon. I saw the big 멇A?on the side.?

Ian Wyatt: 밒 duck, I look up, it looks like a silver American Airlines, twin-engine
plane and then boom.?



In sum, many people on nearby roads or in nearby buildings saw a large passenger plane hit
the Pentagon and, as the above eyewitness testimonies demonstrate, numerous people
specifically identified it as an American Airlines plane.

I found this pic on the net and I think I can post it here, but I will only put the link
so you won't believe it's a kind of trolling attempt.
btw I'm French, and I don't really know what to think about this conflict... our country
is quite involved here, I hope not for wrong reasons like oil...
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7761/hodihoumad.jpg

@ fokker

Due to me saying I wouldnt be rude to anyone else, I will just ignore you for fear of
more unintelligent remarks.

@ Nightcrept

Thank you for that insight. I hadnt known all of that and it gives you a new
perspective of why we went into Iraq in the first place. Much was said to have been
for the oil and that the WMDs were just an excuse, not that he was actually playing
games as you stated. Its interesting to learn that there are still trucks that went
missing, too. You would think with all of our "advanced" technology that wouldnt
have happened (and we would of found Osama by now lol).