@tom: dont have to apologize. that wasnt directed to you anyway :p

@ljsevern: yeah. honestly my main problem with manual is that they need shit-loads of
planning, and you have to focus real hard on your TBs (and of course, while that is
happening, something bad may happen.. if you catch my drift)

maybe i'm speaking nonsense here, but i find manual DB easier than manual TB (hey, i'm
free to speak, it's a democratic nation anyway, lol).. i think it's all about dodging AA
and mastering the distance where you target the enemy ship WRT to the altitude of the
bombers. though, honestly, for me, the only advantage of manual DB for me here is bombing
through smoke..

well, for me, TBs are better off auto, since you can bomb at any altitude anyway. the
element of surprise is still there - they dont know when you will bomb them anyway
(assuming that you are at a lower altitude, giving them the "shock" or giving them less
time to dodge, among other things)

besides, i have better luck in auto-TB. i have a certain technique that i apply such that
even how wild the enemy dodges, they'll still get hit :p

"Are you aware CV's that choose to use torp bombers suffer an exp penalty... like all ships
that use 'torpedo attacks'. I'd love you to change it back so exp was decent or at least
on par with fighters & dive bombers."

That I agree with; Its the same with BB's also; BB's with higher angle guns get more exp.

I thought the torp damage xp penalty was removed...months ago, if not years so subs
can get the correct amount of xp?

The way you can easilly shoot down DBs is if the CV driver just lets them head
towards you at default height.

Now then, dodging Torpedo Bombers is all about positioning. If you are fighting a
BB you must disengage to give yourself space to turn anywhere.

Now, Torpedo Bombers are very difficult to use against somebody who knows how
to position AND has AA. Against the AA moltkes, emdens, or me in my pom pom
emerald you have a very low chance of hitting us. The only way you can attack is by
dropping the planes down to a height of 20ish or below so the AA ship already
knows where to keep his angles set. This can cause panic and leads to bad
bombing runs.

Dive Bombers on the other hand are deadlier to all ships except DD and FF. A good
DB CV driver makes use of the DB's advantage of dropping bombs at any height.
Combine that with the sharp turns and unpredictable height can make DBs get
through without getting hit once and bombing their target.

Well pretty much everybody knows how to manual bomb now, so PCL and SS are
not hard to DB anymore. The CV's sharp turning force will mean nothing if it gets
DB'ed in the center.

@ Angus/Mailman or anyone else with the power to make changes.

Are you aware CV's that choose to use torp bombers suffer an exp penalty... like all ships
that use 'torpedo attacks'. I'd love you to change it back so exp was decent or at least
on par with fighters & dive bombers.

Also if you 'really' want to see more ppl use TB's maybe 2 torps per plane? HA! I wish, or
just buff torp damage from TB's to korean levels - now that would be epic, 11k UK T2 tb's
*drool*


Since the sub's came out they nerfed exp gain from torpedo damage, which had the side
effect of giving terrible exp when using Depth charges, Hedge hogs and also sadly torpedo
bombers from a cv. Terrible exp in comparison to using fighters or dive bombers.

Personally on the rare occasion I do torp bomb (i have 6x 120 uk tb's) it's very enjoyable
using manual and killing smaller boats or smacking into bb5's and 6's. However with bulge
and belt damage done can be quite significantly lower than dive bombers. Only after
'breaking' a BB/CV's bulge will you do more damage and again thats only if you hit them
centre line.

Torp hits on the nose or tail only do 50% damage, factor in the belt and bulge mitigations
and its easy to see why so many choose to DB :)

I used both AAW-Immune TB's and high level AA,so heres my take:

DB's are far more vulnerable to AA,due to the fact that they're far more fragile and it's
impossible to spot AA Ships until you get WELL within their range to avoid them,with
TB's,you can keep them on the deck and use their superior sight range to steer them
clear of the AA Ships (Taking little to no loss to your planes),likewise,it's a pain to kill
Torp Bombers before they drop their load with AA unless:

You have IJN or MN AA.

They're coming right for you.

It's also a lot easier to minimize TB damage in general.

thing is with TB you CANT change angles as fast as with DB, so its impossible to dodge
AA with them..

also, DB has alot more aspects that makes them better than TB nowadays, TBs are
clearly good for certain situations and the only useful TBs are UK because of dmg and
camouflage or MN because of damage, fuel/torp speed and mobility which is gonna get
nerfed...

DBs are in general easier to AA, but that's cause DB is just a lot easier in general.

Against people who can DB/TB well, it's about the same level of difficult, but a different
skill set required.

AAing TBs is a lot more consistent though.

example:
If on 5 TB runs, I'll probably shoot down like x planes everytime
If on 5 DB runs I'll probably shoot down like x plus or minus x everytime.

In otherwords, TBs will have a very consistent level of performance(assuming they hit),
but DB is either really hit or miss.

"DB easier to AA? in wat worldz? o0


TB dmg sucks with 0.2''belt h4x
TB now gives horrible exp because of stupid subs
TB is way harder to manage than DB
Unlike DB, you can almost full rep when being damaged by TB
with DB you have alot more probabilities to do crits
Its almost impossible to kill a CV456 with TB nowadays, with DB you can sink/cripple or
take whole SD by just 1 DB run"

Except for the first part I agree with you terri. DBs are way easier to AA for the most
part since with TBs you have to switch to lower angles. Then again I keep my DBs close to
sea level until I attack so in the end I guess it depends on the player.

Manual TB is far easier to aim then manual DB but everything else involved such as
grouping is way harder with TB. I really would like to see torpedo exp brought back to GB2
(and DB exp to GB1)