Angus, when I asked for reasons for the changes, i was highlighting that you need to put
them in the original post so that everyone knows.

You realize that they are main gunners not AA gunners right?

BB Strasbourg: T space (small): 93 -> 86
(No trip 6" on small T slots of strasbourg)

PBB Dunkerque:
T slots (large): 118 -> 153
T slots (small): 74 -> 86

>>> You should probably explain what guns and how many binds these can use with
these changes.

6 binds with 5.1" duals (80 shells/bind), or ~16 binds with dual 3.5"s.
4 binds with the quad 5.1"s for 153 gun space, but they're also 80 shells/bind.



T slots (large): default gunset: lv 30 x2 5.1"/45 Model 1932 -> MN Lvl 45 4x 5.1"/45
cal Model 1932 A
T slots (small): default gunset: lv 30 x4 5.1"/45 Model 1932 -> MN Lvl 33 x2 5.1"/45
cal Model 1932 A

>>> What do you mean with these? And why are you swapping the large for small?
No objection with the level changes though.

They're physical gunsets, not just levels. The "PBB T guns" need to be replaced as
they're not useful anymore.



>>> What is the current speed of the dunkerque with an a 120 crew, and
importantly given its a PBB, with a level 70/80ish crew? When suggesting the speed
change, you need the current and new speeds).

MN Dunk goes 26/44 without crew, I'm looking at 47kn for a ship that is very similar
(but worse in most cases) when compared to the strasbourg.


ECL Reynaud
R: 71 -> 70 (yes, the difference of 1 determines whether the ship can or cannot use
the dual 5.1"s)

>>> Surely they would be able to fit the duel 5.1's but with no ammo? To be honest,
the Reynaud could be nerfed with the gunslot angles changed. But again, with the
CA's, I would need to try the 5.1's. If they aren't overpowered, I can't see why they
shouldn't be on it.

The Reynaud can fit it with 1 bind right now.


PCL Gamelin
R: 127 -> 153 (quad 5.1" or dual 8"s)

>>> Reasons for the change?

So it can still use the dual 8"s it's supposed to use.


APA Belfort
R: 59 -> 70

>>> Reasons for the change?

So it can use dual 3.5" AA with 6 binds of ammo.



MN Lvl 15 x2 3.5"/50 cal Model 1926: reload time: 1.56 -> 0.8 (same as other
nation's spamming, very short range guns, do note that these guns do less damage
than other nation's spamming guns) or stay as useless guns in general

>>> As long as it isn't overpowered, no problem. What is the range and damage
like? Do they hold HE ammo.


They DO hold HE ammo, but they have the same range with less damage than their
US/IJN counterparts (IJN dual 3" rapid fires, USN has the same)

trips aa are no better than the long range duals

their reload is huge, u make the charlie go 40 knots with them nobody is gonna use
them.

u already need to sacrifice bulge due to the weight, that seems a decent trade off
already.

richie has much less damage & range than SY/H39 and its aa is worse than yammy's
so going 44 with aa seems good to me.

ps.: mn aa is only good to kill scouts at long range. once u need to higher the angle
its a nightmare. its very poor against fighters/bombers as well.

1) Charlemagne T Slots

"With the current patch, the Charlemagne (MN BB6) can use trip 6" guns on it's T
slots. It can hold 10 binds with the first set, and 4 binds with the second set.

My personal opinion is that this is too much T slot firepower. But, if you compare it to
the SY/Alsace's current T slots, it is not too much of an improvement since it cannot
hold the quad 5.1"s.

I want to reduce the speed of the Charlemagne to 40kn if the player is using the trip
6" guns to make the use of trip 6" guns on it's T slots less popular by increasing the
normal displacement by ~1500 to 2000 tons. Note, each trip 6" gun weights around
500 tons with ammo. The Alsace also goes down to 40kn OH with 3 turrets, 120
crew, with the quad 5.1"s+dual 5.1"s."

>>> Honestly? The Trip 6" isn't that good range wise and is very slow reload wise. But I
have no problem with increasing the weight so the ship loses speed due to it.

"One of my other reasons with the large buff to the T space of the Charlemagne was
to make enough room for AA shells for the new dual 5.1" guns. But since they share
shells with the quad 5.1"s (which were buffed so they hold 80 shells per bind), we
could reduce the T space of the Charlemagne back down to ~93 and still have more
than enough ammo on the dual 5.1"s (~8 binds, which equals to ~16 binds on
original nation AA guns)."

>>> Could be worth testing it. We don't need them changed to test the setup, as we can
just use duels on all the slots.

--------------------------

2) 2 Gun Alsace Setup.

"Alsace speed problem; the ship can go 47kn OH with 2 guns, full ammo, 120 crew
(minus 1 gunner). I don't think this was intended? If it is to be brought down to 44kn
(or 45kn, on par with SY), it would be a very complicated process. A decrease in gun
weight will make the number of guns less important to the speed, but will increase
the amount of armor you can fit. A increase in normal displacement will reduce both
the speed of the ship (which would increase due to the lower gun weight), and
reduce the amount of armor you can fit on the ship; but it will require at least 2 or
more changes, as the ship will most likely not go 42/44 (or 45) with 3/2 turrets, and
with/without AA. Testing with 2 guns is 110% needed."

>>> Remember, we can up the deck armour weight, reduce the gun weight. With the
submergence it has and small size, it shouldn't go 47. Drop it to 45, with displacement
changes to bring the submergence to between Montana and Super Yamato.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) Richelieu

Richy speed. It currently goes 45OH without AA, 44OH with AA. An almost non-
existent difference. The intention of the speed buff was to increase it's survivability
by increasing it's turning ability via speed. In a GB situation, the Richy with AA would
be non less than an absolute monster. It can shoot down any scout with dual 3.5"s,
any fighter/bomber with dual 5.1"s, sink smaller ships/SS with it's back R slot guns
(quad 5.1"/trip 6"), and has the speed to destroy any opposing BB that stands in it's
way. It also has a APHC of 3032, almost 1000 less than the H49/Yamato.
I'd rather see a turning force buff to 21 (equal to the Strasbourg), and the speed
reduced by 1kn. A submergence nerf to ~4000.

>>> The main problem with the Richy is lack of being able to battle test it. Remember, the
duel 3.5's have POOR damage, IJN AA is still better at scout sniping. I would like to see how
it plays with 45 and AA, as AA should be standard for MN. I can't advocate any turning force
change until i've played with it, but it should rely on dodging more than submergence. As I
said before the patch, we could try the speed buff, if not try the turning. If the speed buff
hasn't worked, reverting it and the turning buff would be correct. Submergence wise, it
should be between US and IJN

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4) Strasbourg

Strasbourg can now be tested since the speed is now correct. The only problem I
currently see is it's normal displacement; it can go 47OH easily with a lower level
crew; is that something we want? or is that something that is overpowered? Range
must be tested to make sure it's below average of the BB3s, spread can be improved
from my tests, but it should not be a copy of the PoW. Small T slots can be changed
to 86 space; it can currently hold trip 6" with ammo. Submergence needs to be
looked at.

>>> How low level crew? If it is below 100, it shouldn't be a problem; most the BB3's
sacrifice some speed when putting on a high level crew. As said before, I would have to test
them myself, but in theory no objections if things are how you say they are. I'll be able to
take a look tomorrow.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5) Others

PBB Dunkerque needs to be looked at, along with the EBBs (both EBBs).

>>> Goes without saying ;)


BB1-2s. I think I may have over done the T slots; they can hold dual 3.5"s with more
than enough ammo, but should they hold the dual 5.1"s with ammo? Submergence,
range still need to be changed.

CAs have the same problem as the BB1-2s; dual 5.1" guns. Should they be used on
the T slots of CAs?

>>> I haven't tried the 5.1's, but gut feeling i'll say no. 3.5" are sufficient.


Changes that need to be done NOW:

BB Strasbourg: T space (small): 93 -> 86
(No trip 6" on small T slots of strasbourg)

PBB Dunkerque:
T slots (large): 118 -> 153
T slots (small): 74 -> 86

>>> You should probably explain what guns and how many binds these can use with these
changes.

T slots (large): default gunset: lv 30 x2 5.1"/45 Model 1932 -> MN Lvl 45 4x 5.1"/45
cal Model 1932 A
T slots (small): default gunset: lv 30 x4 5.1"/45 Model 1932 -> MN Lvl 33 x2 5.1"/45
cal Model 1932 A

>>> What do you mean with these? And why are you swapping the large for small? No
objection with the level changes though.

base speed +2

(same T slots, speed as Strasbourg, in fact, these old PBB T slot guns can be literally
removed because they've been replaced in the AA role by these A guns, and in the
HE role by the normal quads+duals)

>>> What is the current speed of the dunkerque with an a 120 crew, and importantly given
its a PBB, with a level 70/80ish crew? When suggesting the speed change, you need the
current and new speeds).

ECL Reynaud
R: 71 -> 70 (yes, the difference of 1 determines whether the ship can or cannot use
the dual 5.1"s)

>>> Surely they would be able to fit the duel 5.1's but with no ammo? To be honest, the
Reynaud could be nerfed with the gunslot angles changed. But again, with the CA's, I would
need to try the 5.1's. If they aren't overpowered, I can't see why they shouldn't be on it.

PCL Gamelin
R: 127 -> 153 (quad 5.1" or dual 8"s)

>>> Reasons for the change?

APA Belfort
R: 59 -> 70

>>> Reasons for the change?

lv 120 quad 18.89" guns for BB6:
-1 to accuracy

>>> You should clarify that the spread change was mistakenly done twice, and that you are
just correcting that. May need to be done again depending on the result.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6) "or" changes:

MN Lvl 15 x2 3.5"/50 cal Model 1926: reload time: 1.56 -> 0.8 (same as other
nation's spamming, very short range guns, do note that these guns do less damage
than other nation's spamming guns) or stay as useless guns in general

>>> As long as it isn't overpowered, no problem. What is the range and damage like? Do
they hold HE ammo.

PCA Mandel
T: 62 -> 86 (if it is to use the dual 5.1"s)
or
T: 62 -> 70 (if it is to not use the dual 5.1"s and only the dual 3.5"s)

lv 25 x2 3.5"/50 cal model 1929 A: AA shells per bind: 50 -> 60
or
lv 25 x2 3.5"/50 cal model 1929 A: AA shells per bind: 50 -> 80
(if ships are going to have 70 space to limit the use of dual 5.1"s, then a shell/bind
buff is needed; as 70 gun space only allows for 6 binds)

>>> Not sure why a ship would need to be restricted from using the dual 5.1's when they
can use the duel 3.5's, unless the duel 5.1's are overpowered.

And a list of things I'd like to change can be found in post #2

>>>> I'll comment on those tomorrow

That's the problem for having a new AA gunset. Balancing becomes tougher.


45 knots richelieu was NOT necessary. It was fine from the beginning til the end. I told
you, it was fast. Lukas told you it is fast enough.
Everything was perfect with the 44 knots and spread buff.
Told you everything was borderline acceptable.
EDIT: If you see richelieu AA a problem, you should have seen that it has 4 T slots that
needs to be fixed immediatly. Those are the slots that makes it an absolute perfectly
overkill platform.

Now, if you want 44 or 45 knots with 21 turning force and making it a paper boat, you are
going a little bit too far.


You want my opinion all the T slot are so messed up.

*********

Minimizi.

One thing at a time plz. You're turning it into good AA, and it's AA was meant to be suck
as UK.
I kept myself from the shadows to let you "slightly "buff it, not turning into another
excellent AA.

Plus, mind you if you that almost every BB have excellent AA platform. 4 or 5 T slot per
side, or more depending which tier we're talking. Yet, I see about the majority of their
ships able to do 180 arc of fire, while 90% of the stock nation do not benefit that option.

So they're turning into outstanding AA platform with good AA, things which does not fit
into useable definition.

EDIT:

MN:
Torpedo launcher:
21.65" 19V x 1 Launcher: required level: 2 -> 13

Gun:
2x lv 52 12"/45 cal Model 1906: range: current -> 2x lv 56 13.4"/45 cal Model 1912

2x lv 71 13.4"/45 cal Model 1922: range: current -> USN 2x lv 70 14"/45 cal Mark 7 L
2x lv 69 12"/45 cal Model 1922: range: current -> USN 2x lv 70 14"/45 cal Mark 7 L

2x lv 8"/50 cal Model 1924: range: current -> SN lv 34 3x 6" B-38 MK-9 Pattern 1938
2x lv 8"/55 cal Model 1931: range: current -> SN lv 38 2x 8"/50 Pattern 1905

3x 6.1"/55 cal Model 1926: range: current -> 3x 6.1"/55 cal Model 1920
3x 6.1"/55 cal Model 1920: range: current -> SN lv 26 2x 5.1"/50 B-2LM Pattern 1936


lv 25 x2 3.5"/50 cal model 1929: Usable gunner class: Arm. Sailor -> Gunner
lv 32 x2 3.9/55 cal Model 1945: Usable gunner class: Heavy Gunner -> Gunner
lv 34 x3 6"/55 cal Model 1930: Usable gunner class: Heavy Gunner -> Gunner
lv 37 x3 6.1"/50 cal Model 1920: Usable gunner class: Heavy Gunner -> Gunner
lv 46 x3 6.1"/55 cal Model 1926: Usable gunner class: Gunner -> Heavy Gunner

SN:

maxim gorky: base speed: -2kn
Armor weight increase by ~30%

kirov: base speed: -1kn
Armor weight increase by ~30%

KK:
Armor weight increase by ~30%

Minizini: reload: 1.56 -> 1.4
Minizini: AA shell: 55 -> 65

lv 38 2x 8" AND 1x 8": reload: 10.00-> 8.0
lv 38 2x 8" AND 1x 8": Accuracy +1
lv 52 2x 10": range: Current-> lv 58 dual 12" (Via Gun, not ammo)

Accuracy increase on Izmail, Gangut (+1)

New gunset:
3x 12"/52 pattern 1904
1. Turet Type: x3
2. Req. Ability: Heavy
3. Level: 63
4. Cost: 23000
5. Weight: 1400.0 t
6. Space: 260
7. Caliber: 12.00
8. Train Speed: +35
9. Muzzle Velocity: 800
10. Reload Speed: 13.00
11. (Max.) High Angle: 40
12. Range: same as lv 61 dual 12, 40 degree:
13. Shells: Same shells as 3x 12"/52 pattern 1906
14. Sprite: The same sprite used for the SN 3x 12"/52 pattern 1906



Gangut: base speed increase +1
Gangut: OH ratio: 34% -> 40%
IM: OH ratio: 35% -> 40%
Stalingrad: 30% -> 35%
Kronstadt: turning force: 21->19

Gangut level: 67 -> 65
Izmail level: 68 -> 66

Gangut trip 12" guns: level: 67 -> 65
Izmail trip 14" guns: level: 68 -> 66
Izmail 14" guns reload: 15.76 -> 16.68
Kornstadt 12" guns reload: 16.2 -> 15.60

P24 turning force: 19 -> 21