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  • Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 20. 2011 18:21

angus725
Mailman will be away this weekend, so while he is away, I'm going to be making a list
of what to send to SDE next week. These changes are NOT FINAL, and have not
been approved by Mailman. When MM gets back, he'll go over and approve what is
need, and what isn't.

Most of these changes so far are simply to cover what SDE changed back.
Submergence will have it's own thread posted tomorrow.

List so far:

**Edited by MM: ** means I changed the starting value to current testserver value

MN BB:

Since the Richelieu is now the Richelieu(1939), the remod should either be created
with the same slots as the Richy pre R-T swap, or the name changed back.


** BB Paris: T space: 86 -> 70
** BB Lyon: T space: 86 -> 70
** BB Normandie: T space: 86 -> 70
** BB Bretagne: T space: 86 -> 70
** BB Courbet: T space: 86 -> 70

BB Paris: T slot firing arcs: current -> 120
BB Lyon: T slot firing arcs: current -> 120
BB Normandie: T slot firing arcs: current -> 120
BB Courbet: T slot firing arcs: current -> 120

BB Normandie: Maximum displacement +500 (to fix some displacement issues when
using 120 crew + AA)

MN Dunkerque: T slots (large): default gunset: lv 30 x2 5.1"/45 Model 1932 -> MN Lvl
45 4x 5.1"/45 cal Model 1932 A
MN Dunkerque: T slots (small): default gunset: lv 30 x4 5.1"/45 Model 1932 -> MN Lvl
33 x2 5.1"/45 cal Model 1932 A
MN Dunkerque: base speed +1

MN CA:

** CA Suffern: T space: 76 -> 70
** CA Tourville: T space: 76 -> 70
** CA Algerie: T space: 76 -> 70

MN CL:

CL Reynaud: Cost: 300000 -> 120000
CL Reynaud: Cost: Base speed -1

MN CV:

** CV Liberte: R space: 86 -> 74
** CV Arromanches: R space: 86 -> 74
** CV Joffre: R space: 105 -> 74
** CV Bearn: R space: 64 -> 54
** PCV Daladier: R space: 86 -> 74

CV Arromanches: R slots 3, 4: Firing arcs: current -> 270

CV Daladier: Level required: 100 -> 103


SN BB:

SN BB Gangut level: 67 -> 65

SN BB Izmail level: 68 -> 66

SN BB Project 24: turning force: 19 -> 21 (maybe try 20 first ?? *MM)


SN CA:

SN CA Maxim Gorky: base speed: -3kn
SN CA Maxim Gorky: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Maxim Gorky: Turning force: 25 -> 18

SN CA Kirov: base speed: -1kn
SN CA Kirov: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Kirov: Turning force: 25 -> 19

SN CA Krasny Kavkaz: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Krasny Kavkaz: Turning force: 25 -> 20


SN CL:

SN CL Chapayev: Cost: 300000 -> 130000


SN CV:

SN CV Komsomolets: R slots: 40 -> 73

SN CV Project 71: Large T slots: 84 -> 76
SN CV Project 71: Small T slots: 73 -> 71

SN CV Project 72: Large T slots: 84 -> 76
SN CV Project 72: Small T slots: 73 -> 71

SN CV Project 69AV: Level required: 97 -> 104

SN CV Kosrtomitinova: Level required: 100 -> 97


- Gunset -

MN BB gunsets:

MN Lvl 79 x4 13"/50 cal Model 1934: Accuracy +1


MN AA gunsets:

MN Lvl 15 x2 3.5"/50 cal Model 1926: reload time: 1.56 -> 0.8

MN lv 25 x2 3.5"/50 cal model 1929 A: AA shells per bind: 50 -> 70


MN gunsets etc:

MN lv 25 x2 3.5"/50 cal model 1929: Usable gunner class: Arm. Sailor -> Gunner
MN lv 32 x2 3.9/55 cal Model 1945: Usable gunner class: Heavy Gunner -> Gunner
MN lv 34 x3 6"/55 cal Model 1930: Usable gunner class: Heavy Gunner -> Gunner
MN lv 37 x3 6.1"/50 cal Model 1920: Usable gunner class: Heavy Gunner -> Gunner
MN lv 46 x3 6.1"/55 cal Model 1926: Usable gunner class: Gunner -> Heavy Gunner


SN BB gunsets:

SN New gunset:
3x 12"/52 pattern 1904
1. Turet Type: x3
2. Req. Ability: Heavy
3. Level: 63
4. Cost: 23000
5. Weight: 1400.0 t
6. Space: 260
7. Caliber: 12.00
8. Train Speed: +35
9. Muzzle Velocity: 800
10. Reload Speed: 13.00
11. (Max.) High Angle: 40
12. Range: same as SN lv 61 2x 12"/40 Pattern 1895
13. Shells: Same shells stats as SN lv 67 3x 12"/52 pattern 1906
14. Sprite: The same sprite used for the SN lv 67 3x 12"/52 pattern 1906


SN lv 67 3x 12"/52 pattern 1906: level: 67 -> 65
SN lv 67 3x 12"/52 pattern 1906: Accuracy: +1

SN lv 68 x3 14"/52 Pattern 1913: level: 68 -> 66
SN lv 68 x3 14"/52 Pattern 1913: 15.76 -> 16.68
SN lv 68 x3 14"/52 Pattern 1913: Accuracy +1

SN lv 78 x3 12?B-36 Pattern 1937: Accuracy bonus -1

SN lv 79 x3 12"/55 B-50 Pattern 1940: 16.2 -> 15.60

SN lv 89 x3 12"/62 SM-33 Pattern 1948: Shell weight: 1050 -> 500 (please keep
current range)

SN lv 91 x3 16"/45 Pattern 1914: all shells: Shell weight: 1150-> 1020 (Please keep
current range)


SN AA:

SN Lvl 36 2x 6"/57 B-38 MK-17 Pattern 1938: reload: 4.32 -> 4.16
SN Lvl 36 2x 6"/57 B-38 MK-17 Pattern 1938: maxinum angle: 45 -> 85

SN lv 30 3.9"/50 "Minizini": AA shell damage: 55 -> 60


SN CA/CL gunsets:

SN lv 38 2x 8"/50 Pattern 1905, 1x 8"/50 Pattern 1905: reload: 10.00-> 8.0
SN lv 38 2x 8"/50 Pattern 1905: Accuracy +1

SN lv 52 2x 10": range: Current-> lv 58 12" Pattern 1877 (Via Gun, not ammo)

Torpedo launcher:
MN 21.65" 19V x 1 Launcher: required level: 26 -> 13
  Index

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 31. 2011 11:01

ljsevern
What I was trying to highlight with the post, as I knew a number of reasons as to
why it was changed, others looking at them don't; E.g. the CL costs, SN BB1 etc...

How about we leave the DD/CL/CA stuff until we have the BB stuff sorted. Quite
honestly, this is chaos, we can't deal with all of this at once. Then have a thread for
them at the end.

Regarding SN AA; Was there a thread dedicated to it, or was it a bit of discussion in a
megathread? Are there any SN AA guns that are hugely overpowered?

CV changes to stop them holding less AA gun ammo seems wasteful, and won't make
a huge difference when we have bigger fish to fry.

Regarding MN BB3 spread, give me an MN account to hop onto and i'll check it out
myself, but there really should be a thread for the MN BB3.

SNBB6 turning; Don't do too much in one go. Do a +1, then we will see what change
it has.

CV Gunspace changes; Make a thread for it. Are there currently any overpowered
setups CV with gunwise? If so, decide them in a thread dedicated for it.

Shell Weight Changes to the SN Gunsets; Tell them not to change damage also.

SNBB1; I agree, and told you in the start of SN before release it needed a trip
gunset. But there were changes to other guns after that, what guns were they?

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 31. 2011 10:31

angus725
SN BB1 gunset changes; Have these been discussed? At a first glance I agree with the
new gunset for it, but isn't the level a bit too high?
--------------
It is needed to make the SN BB1 slightly more useful. The current details is just for the
guns to be made, they can be adjusted later.


MN Gunner ability value changes; Because of the level decrease of those guns right?
--------------
Level changes in general.


Shell weight changes to the SN gunsets; Surely it would be better to ask them to reduce
the armour penetration without changing damage or range? Unless we know these
specific values are going to work
---------------
Richard's values. They seem reasonable enough as tests to see how shell weight affects
armor penetration.


SN CA/CL Gunsets; Have these been discussed?

SN AA changes; Have these been discussed?
------------
Yes, during my first SN thread.


"CL Reynaud: Cost: Base speed -1"

Discussion?
--------------
No one seemed to care enough. It's been there for...a week and a half? If we're going to
keep the dual 3.5"s on the Reynaud, it should be weak in something else?



CV Gunspace changes; Prior to the thread, was there discussion?
-----------------
No. Seems like there's enough on this thread now though.


SN BB Project 24: turning force: 19 -> 21 (maybe try 20 first ?? *MM)"

Discussion? Why straight to 21? That, imo is just stupid. Go to 20 first, then if that
doesn't work, go to 21. But it must remain at 35 knots if you are upping the turning.
----------
Kaiser and Nebby are both at 22, the difference of 19 and 20 compared to 22 is not
noticeable.


SN CA Maxim Gorky: base speed: -3kn
SN CA Maxim Gorky: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Maxim Gorky: Turning force: 25 -> 18

SN CA Kirov: base speed: -1kn
SN CA Kirov: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Kirov: Turning force: 25 -> 19

SN CA Krasny Kavkaz: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Krasny Kavkaz: Turning force: 25 -> 20

>>> Again, the exact changes haven't been discussed. Are these ok? From what I heard,
there were big issues with the gunsets too.
-------------------
Gunset adjustments are in the list. TF is from a list I have. The SN CAs will be 1 below the
other nations TF wise for each tier.

"SN CL:

SN CL Chapayev: Cost: 300000 -> 130000"

>>> Why?
-------------------
All other ECLs are ~100k. As the best ECL, 130k seems justified.


SN CV:

SN CV Komsomolets: R slots: 40 -> 73

SN CV Project 71: Large T slots: 84 -> 76
SN CV Project 71: Small T slots: 73 -> 71

SN CV Project 72: Large T slots: 84 -> 76
SN CV Project 72: Small T slots: 73 -> 71

>>> Why? What does this reduction prevent? Where was the discussion?
-----------------
Richard's ideas. Reduce the gunspace so the dual 5.1" AA guns hold less ammo.


"MN BB gunsets:

MN Lvl 79 x4 13"/50 cal Model 1934: Accuracy +1"

>>> Didn't we previously buff this? Again, where was the discussion?
----------------
It's currently very similar to Nagato 16" first set spread. Discussion was during a testing
session.


Reasons, and discussion is needed before the Angus changes. I'm not saying I don't agree
with some of these, but other people need a chance to post their opinions of it, and not in
this gigantic patch thread.
---------------
Had most of these proposals posted for close to a month now without any discussion.
They're either to be done now, or not at all.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 30. 2011 22:53

ljsevern

---------------

SN BB1 gunset changes; Have these been discussed? At a first glance I agree with the
new gunset for it, but isn't the level a bit too high?

--------------

MN Gunner ability value changes; Because of the level decrease of those guns right?

--------------

Which ships are the SN gunset changes for?

Shell weight changes to the SN gunsets; Surely it would be better to ask them to reduce
the armour penetration without changing damage or range? Unless we know these
specific values are going to work

---------------

SN CA/CL Gunsets; Have these been discussed?

SN AA changes; Have these been discussed?

------------

"CL Reynaud: Cost: Base speed -1"

Discussion?

--------------

CV Gunspace changes; Prior to the thread, was there discussion?

-----------------

SN BB Project 24: turning force: 19 -> 21 (maybe try 20 first ?? *MM)"

Discussion? Why straight to 21? That, imo is just stupid. Go to 20 first, then if that
doesn't work, go to 21. But it must remain at 35 knots if you are upping the turning.

----------

SN CA Maxim Gorky: base speed: -3kn
SN CA Maxim Gorky: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Maxim Gorky: Turning force: 25 -> 18

SN CA Kirov: base speed: -1kn
SN CA Kirov: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Kirov: Turning force: 25 -> 19

SN CA Krasny Kavkaz: Armor weight constant increase by 30%
SN CA Krasny Kavkaz: Turning force: 25 -> 20

>>> Again, the exact changes haven't been discussed. Are these ok? From what I heard,
there were big issues with the gunsets too.

-------------------

"SN CL:

SN CL Chapayev: Cost: 300000 -> 130000"

>>> Why?

-------------------

SN CV:

SN CV Komsomolets: R slots: 40 -> 73

SN CV Project 71: Large T slots: 84 -> 76
SN CV Project 71: Small T slots: 73 -> 71

SN CV Project 72: Large T slots: 84 -> 76
SN CV Project 72: Small T slots: 73 -> 71

>>> Why? What does this reduction prevent? Where was the discussion?

-----------------

"MN BB gunsets:

MN Lvl 79 x4 13"/50 cal Model 1934: Accuracy +1"

>>> Didn't we previously buff this? Again, where was the discussion?

----------------

tl;dr

Reasons, and discussion is needed before the Angus changes. I'm not saying I don't agree
with some of these, but other people need a chance to post their opinions of it, and not in
this gigantic patch thread.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 29. 2011 10:13

NIborGER
MN PCV cant use the 5.1inch dual AA guns when the suggested changes in this thread will be
done. So it should have enough r-space to hold the 5.1inch dual AA. also i have to say i
dont understand why 5.1inch dual/quad take so much r-space. They are AA guns. I think for
quads it should be around 110 so emile bertin can use it.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 29. 2011 09:36

V2CxBongRipz
"Hindenburg
-max 255 bulge and still having a bit disp left
-can use 6.75inch D/5.9 L or 11inch single or KM 40
-turning force 32"

How can you fit 255 bulge? With level 103 bo, 100 fighters, and level 85 DBs I can fit 250
only.

The 11" singles Hindenburg can use are the first set Ds with 1 bind. These guns have low
CA range and really are not that great for firepower. They are also very heavy, too heavy
for Hindenburg to use effectively IMO.

6.75" - Can use 2 binds only. These are CL guns only and have poor damage.

5.9" - Keep in mind these are DD guns not the CL 5.9 trips and only one set is any good,
the one with 65 degree is possible to HA with. Not something that is great for CVs though.

5" 40s - The gunslots are way too big for these IMO. The slots on PCVs are mainly AA slots
and 19 binds of AA ammo on a CV is too much but I dont think its an argument to buff
Daladier to being able to turn to a gunship.

-PCV turning force is way too much considering how badly nerfed CV turning force was in
ONF CV patch. Either the other CVs need to be brought back up or PCVs need to go down.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 27. 2011 16:55

ljsevern
After this patch, I personally think we should concentrate tier by tier; This is just chaotic
and we don't have enough time to verify if each of the changes are correct, and then to
battle test these.

I suggest after this, we concentrate on tiers rather than the chaotic mass patch notes
we have now.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 26. 2011 22:22

SiriusA
No chance for a turn force buff for MN and SN PCV's?

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 26. 2011 09:00

richardphat
Off topic, I will need the range chart MM.

I don't necessarily need the newest nation such as MN,SN or RM.

But, having the current stock nation range data will help us alot.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 26. 2011 08:54

NIborGER
I compared Daladier to its sister ship Hindenburg.
(using current testserverstats according to patch logs)

Equal:
-same Hitbox
-same angle
-same launchabilities
-same speed

Differences:
Daladier
-max 160 bulge
-can use (lost a bit of overview but i think its: 3.5"/50 cal with low ammo aa but cant
use the new 5.1inch set and 5.1inch dual 1932 with 1bind)<--using the suggested r-space of 74
-turning force 26

Hindenburg
-max 255 bulge and still having a bit disp left
-can use 6.75inch D/5.9 L or 11inch single or KM 40
-turning force 32

I think u musnt be a fan of MN to see that in all diferences that are there between MN and
KM pcv MN is always on the short end. Either Hindenburg is massivly overpowered or
Daladier needs some buffs.

I plan to compare cv5s soon too but it seems yet MN will be on the short end again.

  • Re : Pending prioposal WIP (May 20th)

    05. 26. 2011 01:39

ljsevern
I'm going to re-go over this list later on today, I know from first glance I have a few issues.
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