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  • Submergence Discussion

    05. 21. 2011 11:39

ljsevern
Quick discussion that I want to see thoughts on. First thing is first, some definitions
and explanations.

First; Survivability = A combination of DP (Health) and damage absorbance (AP
Hull/Cap, or what used to be called submergence.

DP isn't capped, but true DP obviously takes into account SD.

The Damage absorbance is. Some of the BB5's and all of the BB6's reach that cap. So
here we have a problem; At BB5 and BB6 level, some of the ships have the same
value. Thus DP needs to differ at BB5/6 level from their national traits to achieve the
right overall survivability.

On top of that, the design of some ships means that some ships will have
above/below submergence.

Overall Survivability should be based around national advantages and ship size;
Remember, survivability = a combination of DP and submergence, and note, alot of
the survivability and damage absorbence is messed up due to accidental changes,
however, on the whole (except for BB5/6 due to the issues mentioned above), DP is
correct.

DP is ranked (according to the BB4's; Remember the Vanny is kind of wrong as it isn't
an originally balanced ship).

Stalingrad 25400
Vanny 25700
Iowa 25850
Richy 25863
H39 26000
Yamato 26300
L1 26550

Thus:-

RU < US < MN < KM < IJN < UK (DP)

MN have small ship size, thus poor survivability
IJN is meant to have worst survivability
UK is meant to have the best survivability
US is meant to have average survivability
KM being poor survivability (Due to long range)

New Nations; I personally am not sure about this. I guess;
RU has range and damage, thus below average survivability.
Italy I imagine will have good DP and average submergence with above average
survivability (as I imagine it will be average range, average damage but low angle
and best reload, like the AD)

Do you feel that the paragraph above is correct, and if not, what do you think it
should be?
  Index

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 26. 2011 11:57

richardphat
When you fire you HE shells, you are firing your AP shells.
That's the basic information you should know.


I don't want to copy paste my wall of text in this broken forum. ;)

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 12:52

ljsevern
The BSM needs a nerf lol. Saying otherwise is hilarious.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 12:24

SylverXI
Still, but why are we talking about smaller ship fighting eachother with AP shells again?

It seems to me as if somebody is trying find an excuse to say "submergence value"
changes are more important in larger ships?

Then whe shifted to smaller ships that for some reason are now only using AP instead
of HE shells against larger ships?

Now we shifted back to smaller ships being hit by AP shells and that "submergence
value" is still more important than DP in the lower tiers only when hit by higher tiers
ships?

I don't understand nor know kinluu's exact point of view on this and and don't really
see the pattern.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 09:42

richardphat
Let's clear this out. The bismarck has the lowest submergence.

The chart got values unintended interchanged. That's why yo could see yammy having greater
submergence than US, bismarck bigger than hood.

It's probably few mistakes that were done, but not big deal.


If you want to be sure, use the fomula or compare directly the max DP.


Else, use the PPro1 as example, that ship is the out of wack for KM ;)



@Silver
"Almost" BB3,BB4 does not hit the AP cap.

Only 1 exception is IJN and probably SN 16" for stalingrad.
Else Iowa, still have bugged AP shells, Lion that can barely reach 4200, Nelson the same
as Lion1, KM no need to explain it, richelieu we can forget about it, it is obvious, Sodak
can't reach the AP cap, etc.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 09:37

SylverXI
Actually most BB4 and BB3 also hit the AP cap at max angle. Since the lower the tier,
the lower the cap also.

For BB1 and BB2 maybe. But we are not talking about armored ships anyway at the
moment since only UK and a handfull of ships can really put armor.

We are talking about normal circumstances where BB's fight with HE, not AP.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 09:16

KinLuu
----
"submergence value" is still
more important than DP in the lower tiers. Is what I said.
----

Only against BB56.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 09:05

SylverXI
That may be, but that still doesn't eliminate the fact that "submergence value" is still
more important than DP in the lower tiers. Is what I said.

For higher tiers like BB6, submergence values have no effect, since all bb6 have equal
values(they all hit the cap). Thus DP becomes more important. For BB5 like H44 and SY,
same story as for BB6's.

For the other BB5, "submergence value" plays a larger roll still. But not for BB6 since
they all have equal value anyway.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 09:00

KinLuu
My point is that "submergeance" is far more important for higher tier than for lower tiers.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 08:54

SylverXI
Your point? it was tested with Kaizer and Nebraska AP guns at max angle.

  • Re : Submergence Discussion

    05. 23. 2011 08:50

KinLuu
Most low tier guns do not hit the AP cap in the first place.
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