@Lionel2

just for the sake of fun, a lvl120 DD is called a BB6

more seriously, i dont ask for bigger subs (except SS6), i am just asking for higher
level subs (current SS4 becoming SS5 at 103).

but as someone put it, this is a BB game...
+++

My opinion (combination of a couple different ideas):

1. Spread out the levels between subs. SS4 is BB5 (Over level 100)
2. Greatly increase air time on all subs (5x or 6x)
3. Add a new status bar: Battery
- Takes "Damage" when you move
- OH kills it faster, engineer level alleviates the difference
- Battery is linked to sub model, not crew level
- Planesman level slightly effects recharge time
4. Increase damage done by surface shells when sub is surfaced
5. Greatly increase sub sonar detection distance, decrease surface ship detection except
for when the sub is on OH.
6. Equalized crew experience with equivalent battleship counterparts
7. Dedicated, mid level (lvl 60-80) destroyers (remodels?) with ASW, extra detection range
and good experience gain for hunting and detecting subs.
8. Scout planes with depth charges and some detection capability
9. Decrease the rate at which torpedoes are duds
10. Decrease torpedo splash damage done to surface ships
11. Aircraft torpedoes/ TW ships should have a higher chance of a dud/miss (60%), but
higher damage vs subs. (Subs travel much deeper than the depths that a surface torpedo would)
12. HH detonation time increase
13. Add a little 'launch distance' for DC. (little further reach, ~90 degrees of arc of fire

> Limitation is by movement, not time. Subs should be the scalpel, not the hammer.
Moving up, hiding, waiting for the chance to strike.
> Weakness to ASW weapons,

The game is already fairly well balanced. A big sub, at the right time, with the right
driver can change the outcome of the game. 20 BBs cruising up and down the firing line
don't make a difference as individuals do, a well captained sub, can. Therefore, the
handful of really, truly talented sub drivers could clean up the game.


Submarines, in WWII (which is when this game is based) were pretty darn slow and limited.
They were a support arm. There were moments in the war when submarines made some
tremendous impacts, like US subs sinking 2 carriers right before a major carrier vs
carrier battle. However, they still weren't the decisive arm.


Further, you have to consider the counter measures. Subs are fighting CLs and DDs. So here
comes a guy, in at best, a L20 something DD and he's out there fighting a L120 sub.....
please! If there are L120 subs, then I suggest that they create L120 destroyers with
improved sonar, DC racks on the BACK of the ship instead of the side, guns that actually
damage subs (like the real war when a few shells through the pressure hull were lethal)
and so on.


A more realistic improvement would be as suggested before, add ons like a snorkel, better
radar, better torpedo, so that you have something worth leveling to. Super subs are not
the way to go.

"The main problem is air. Not enough, not long enough and you run out just when
you get to the other side and into a BB nest"

seriously.... you must be out of your freaking mind
i have had a KM SS4 sit under me for like 3 minutes launching torps constantly

and once he surfaced, i hit him at point blank with 3 monty salvos and he was still in the
green

subs are messed up.. .SS1's and 2's suck too much and SS4's are way too OP
i agree with the stretching of subs out, because it is extremely when some idiot in a lvl
75 ship can sink a 110-120ship and the 110-120 cant even see whats shooting at it, let
alone fight back

case and point, i am not advocating the removal of subs from the game, because they are a
valuable asset and are part of navies... however the devs need to take a serious look at
how SS4s have imbalanced the game

Instead of torps, they should launch sharks... with freakin' lasers.

Obvious troll is obvious

I have a U-flak and it is, by far, the best Sub in the game. When I am facing SS vs
SS, the only sub I worry about is another KM SS. All of the SS4 are good ships, but
the KM can take all of them down if maneuvered properly. Even with only 4 front
tubes, your reload time is better than the others. Never leave home without rear
torpedoes.

The main problem is air. Not enough, not long enough and you run out just when
you get to the other side and into a BB nest.

Dedicated ASW whores w' a dozen HH launchers (Mandel/Moltke CAs) are
unrealistically impossible to defeat. Multiple Salvos don't dent them. Best approach
is to take out their escort and dodge and crash dive until you can get him. Avoid
them if possible. Other ASW ships (FF-CL) are easier to tackle.

SS1 and SS2 are totally obsolete since the nerf change and HH upleveling. You will
run out of air at exactly the wrong moment. Run out of air = dead

As for SS5, I don't see NF doing anything. Mostly because the Big Babies don't like
getting ripped. This is a BB game. Subs are just a nuisance.

subs are weak only to other subs or depth charges.(hedgehogs are too weak and too slow not
to mention the price)Also only ships that can use dc average are the small and fast ships.

And here is the problem all big ships dont have good sub defence especially on older
servers where everyone are on +CL class ship.(For me is stupid to make sub hunters new
players that have no idea what they do and usually fail to do it)

subs in general need 6 ships in the line, like most other lines.

they also come too early.
with minor improvements an SS1 should be at 46, and the scale should "slide" all
the way until SS3. then we should have at lvl 89 a stronger SS3, becoming the new
SS4. the current SS4 becomes SS5 and comes at lvl 103. the new SS6 (swifter)
would be at lvl 120.
so the levels would be 46,59,74,89,103,120.

for the sub players, this would mean improved skills to develop, improved XP,
optimization of the crews, better market for the specialised sailors.

for some BB players who complain of "being one-shot by a lvl 74 ship", they would
feel better being elegantly sunk by a lvl 103 SS4 now called SS5.

this could apply (with minor tweaks) to sub lines of all nations.

my 2 cts...

well germany's UFLAk is darn gud
i used to have a Neut DD filled with DC that reload in nanosec
but a 3 goldbar Uflak beat me with its "HELL"flakguns
soo germany no need no more SS
offtopic :i vote for better graphics