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Imperial Japanese Navy

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  • IJN Sub Guide

    06. 22. 2011 20:23 PST


GHHalley

Over the next week, I will try to bring the old guide back to life on the new website.  As before, the majority of the information will be on the first reply to limit the length of the initial post on top of every page.

Table of contents:

Page 1 discusses the different subs and basic tactics.

Page 2 of this guide contains several discussions on crew setup and more on tactics.

 Page 3 has a section about the historical context of the subs and more about the SS5.

           Hope you all enjoy. Please reply to add in your own take on tactics.

Skim through all of the posts.  There are some good comments at the end.  I will try to update and organize the info better. 

 

  • Ode to the Jap Sub

    06. 22. 2011 20:58 PST


GHHalley
The Jap sub is a beast, a bear
Hiding in his cave, ships pass unaware
Ready to pounce without a care
All Battleships be fully aware!

We will cripple and kill you all
Do not think your bulge will forestall
Come and you will hear our torpedos call
It is your doom, you fatal flaw, your joyeous fall

Japanese subs are hated and here's their fame
They bring needed balance to our game
And when you set sail from your port
I hope you have one to protect your side of the court...

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    06. 23. 2011 21:05 PST


GHHalley

Here is a quick sub guide:

SS1 Vickers -- 6 torpedo tubes forward, 0 back.  1 3" gun
                       3 support sailor, 1 torpedo, 1 gunner, 1 BO slot
                       base speed of 21/23

one of the slowest ships in all of the game, but if you can get close to someone, its probably the hardest hitting level 37 ship in the game. I once was on a losing team and we had a BB6 rushing our CVs for the kill. I guessed right and the BB just drove straight in. My Vickers hit him with all of my torpedos and sank him -- what a glorious day -- my teammates couldn't believe it.
     Couple of suggestions with this sub. Don't get it without having a planesman and a sonarman. I did, and it sucked. I bet most players just skip this level, keep on the Kita route and develop your torpedo men and two support sailors. When You BO becomes level 49, use a BO reset to go over to Junsen and convert your support man into a sonarman and a planesman. You can convert your support over earlier -- it will give you crewman better ability, but you will lose a boost in engy, restore, and repair.
    If you are playing Vickers, the best strategy is go to the weak side of your team. Hope that this side loses and the enemy BBs rush -- I'm serious now. There is great satisfaction killing a rushing BB with a SS1. You can also try to play ASW with the sub within your BB line, but you will be at a great disadvantage against the higher players.  You are just too slow both speed wise and turning.  The other choice is to go in the middle and try to take out rushing DD's and CLs.

SS2 Junsen --  6 torpedo tubes forward, 2 back. 2 5.5" gun
                        3 support sailor, 2 torpedo, 2 gunner, 1 BO slot
                        base speed of 25/28

by far the best SS2 in the game. It has one sole purpose, kill BBs. If you get in a sub vs sub battle, use the strategy in the next post. Ultimately, just try to stay out of those battles and focus on killing BBs. With six torpedo tubes in front and two in the back, it can do serious damage. I stayed with the Junsen well past the time my BO could command the Kadai -- that was how much I enjoyed it.  The hardest part of this sub is limited underwater time and speed.  So use clouds to get close or wait until the right time to attack.  You might use the beginning of the game to kill an incoming sub with your rear torps on your side of the board and then go for any rushing BBs after getting some more air.  As you engies and planesman improve, you will be able to rush and kill a BB or two before surfacing. 

SS3 Kadai -- 4 torpedo tubes forward, 2 back. 1 3.9" gun   (upgraded torps from SS1/2)
                    4 support sailor, 2 torpedo, 1 gunner, 1 BO slot
                    base speed of 27/31

 this is a beautiful looking sub, and has a considerable improvement in speed, agility, and torpedos. Unfortunately, it only has four torpedo tubes in front and after the Junsen, this will feel frightfully low. I spent much of my time in this sub playing ASW -- again see the followon post. Its just a stepping stone to the glorious epitome of an IJN sub....

SS4 HEI --  8 torpedo tubes forward, 0 back. 1 5.5" gun
                  5 support sailor, 1 torpedo, 1 gunner, 1 BO slot
                  base speed of 25/33

my nickname for her is the Black Widow. She is the slowest of the SS4's, but with 8 torpedo tubes in the front, no one can hit as hard. She can also hold a large crew and withstand a lot of damage. I have taken four KM SS torpedos and kept moving at full speed, while dispatching the pesky enemy sub with 3 of my own.  Use the 8 torpedos in front well.  When you have a real juicy target, layout a large spread guaranteeing much damage, or when playing ASW or a smaller target, shoot four, wait to see how the target reacts and then shoot another four of the kill.  Always use gradual firing with this sub.  The torpedos strike hard enough that maximum firing is overkill.  By using gradual firing you can either fire a spread which will account for any target changes in movement, or fire four and leave the second four for a quick targeting adjustment after you see how the target reacts.  

In my opinion, this is the BEST sub of the game.  I have a IJN SS BO Lvl 110 and KM SS BO Lvl 100, and this is still my favorite sub.  Nothing like taking out multiple BB5s in one game.  A single salvo does incredible damage.  


SS5 - 6 torpedo tubes forward, 0 back. 1 5.5" gun  (upgraded torpedos from SS3/4)
         Room for 8 or 10 torpedo bombers (depending on type)
         7 support sailor, 1 torpedo, 1 gunner, 1 BO slot
         base speed of 24/28; Stays underwater for approximately 228 seconds


(Also discussed later) Probably the hardest ship to play well in the game. It is relatively slow both in speed and turns, but big, with lots of room for supports or ....Torpedo bombers!! Yes, you can have 10 T1/2 or 8 T3's in it. Of course, they only load, launch, or recover when you are on the surface. Did I say this sub is hard to play?, but lots of fun and unlike any other ship in the game. I think it is cool looking too. 


SS6 -- (Information is preliminary)   
         8 torpedo tubes front, 0 back.  1 5.5' gun  (upgraded torpedos from SS5 -- same damage, but more range -- hardest hitting and longest range torps in the game.)
         Room for 14 or _ torpedo bombers.  Launches 4 at a time
         8 support slots, 1 torpedo, 1 gunner, 1 BO slot

         Need L105 torpedo men and BO for it to be functional.  Basically an upgrade to the SS5, with more structural strength, more speed (not much), more firepower, more displacement, more AA, more overheat.  I need to get my torpedoman up to Level 105 and then I will give you more info.  Any upgrade from SS5 is welcome.  Can say its an easy SD900 with the support slots and IJN engies you can put into it.  Can't wait to hit BB's with the 8 torpedos -- this is by far the hardest hitting sub in the game.  It is also the biggest (at least by displacement) and probably the strongest and by far probably the slowest SS6!  I am very happy to have 8 torps in front again and can't wait to see what it can do.  Will be a bear to sink. 
  

Torpedos --  more importantly than the sub is the torpedo! The Japanese sub torpedos have the farthest range and the hardest hitting power of any submarine torpedo. To play Japanese well, you must always take advantage of this. When being attacked by subs or ASW ships, it is always best to kill them at the exploding range of your torpedos. If they get within this range, you are then at a disadvantage because they will be able to out manoeuver you. It is better to use more torpedos ensuring the long range kill then to try to kill them with the least amount of torpedos.


Crews --  A quick discussion on Crew Arrangement. There is only really one thing you need to know:

    Get as many Engineers on your sub as possible! And make sure they are either 1) If all IJN, make sure they are basically the same ability or 2) if mixing nationalities, make sure the other nationality engineer is ~33% better.  KM engies are probably the best candidate because they have an additional level boost.  I am not an engineer expert -- read other posts for the details since it is a more general discussion topic. 
You can read through the thread to hear variations I and others have tried.  In particular, page 3 has some useful comments.

    Typically, you will get enough repair and restore from your engineers at higher levels. The problem with IJN subs are they are slow and you will want to get as much speed out of them possible, thus the only worry about engineers.
     Of course every sub needs a planesman, a sonarman, a BO, and torpedo men. You can delay classing up your planes and sonar to get extra ability in repair/restore/engie. This is a good idea. Typically, by the SS4, it won't matter much about the abilities on any of these individuals as they will be close to capped out.  Sonarmen and planesmen don't stack so there is no value in having more than one.  

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    06. 23. 2011 22:09 PST


jjay8
what would be your recommendation for ss3. 2 planemans and 1 sonarman? thanks

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    06. 24. 2011 01:25 PST


NIborGER
Originally Posted by jjay8
what would be your recommendation for ss3. 2 planemans and 1 sonarman? thanks


1planes and 1 sonar are enough. Better place a engy in the supportslot. I am not sure but sonar dont stack and i think planesman not too meaning only the planesman with highest ability will count and the other one is dead wight.

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    06. 24. 2011 03:47 PST


Rick5000
I wanna buy ijn ss3-4 crew :P and then i want to buy a BO reset and have ijn ss4 'yeey'

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    06. 24. 2011 05:26 PST


romantic8236
Thank you very much for the good guide.

I have used ijn ss2 and ss3 and i couldn't do much, EVEN i swear that i am not going to use ss2 and ss3 till i hit lvl77.

Now i have ijn ss4 and I LOVE this ship. I try to hide all the time, i try to be away from any enemy sub.(you can kill them but it's risky since ijn ss is a bb or cv killer ) If you can achieve this, i am pretty sure that you can do 100k at least every battle.

  • ASW Tactics

    07. 03. 2011 21:38 PST


GHHalley

Let's talk about Tactics.

OK, most people consider KM as the only sub to play against other subs. Don't believe them -- I have a high success rate against KM as long as you play it your way, not theirs.

As stated before, do not let the subs get within your torpedo range. This is more easily done with the SS2 and SS3. Here are the keys:

1) Know your enemy and where he is! Try to see what subs are in the game before the players are split. Note if you played any of them earlier in the day -- if so, they will likely do the same attack plan as before. Then when your first scouts start arriving, look for the enemy subs. What you are trying to do is predict when and where the enemy will be after it submerges. This is especially important in the lower subs as your sonar operator is bound to be poorer than the higher level subs.

2) Fire early. I became very good at predicting where the enemy would be before I even saw him. Because IJN torpedoes are the longest range and hardest hitting in the game, you want to hit the enemy sub at the max distance where they explode. Typically in the Junsen or Kadai, I would fire at least four torpedo spread, guessing where the sub was. After a while, you can get good at this -- I probably hit 1 in 3 incoming subs. Afterall, most sub drivers are dumb and come straight in (remember that when you are the rushing sub)

3) Stay back. When you are playing ASW, it is an advantage to be near your ships. They will love you because your sonar will pick up the subs and they can dodge appropriately and you will love them because a nice HH throw will make your job a lot easier!

4) After firing first, RUN! This is the counter-intuitive part, but the key to playing ASW with an IJN sub. Imagine being the KM sub driver -- "you see the incoming subs torpedoes and critical dive and they miss you. Now what do you do? You immediately turn to attack that stupid IJN sub who thinks he can kill you. What a fool, does he really think an IJN sub can kill me! Ha -- so you go into overdrive and fire salvo at the IJN sub. BUT WAIT -- the IJN sub is running away and my torpedoes explode short of him! Now I'm mad and try to chase down the IJN sub." While he is chasing you down, you let go of your aft tubes, he runs into your torps, or they explode at max range and kill him. You won't get damaged and he has just been "sucker punched!"
-- One other thing, if the enemy sub doesn't take the bait and goes in for a BB instead, turn around and reengage him. After all, your job is to protect your BBs!  Oh, then he really hates you!

5) If you are not lucky enough to be running away killing the sub with your aft torpedoes, here are a couple of tips. - Once in close, always keep a shot or two in reserve. Two reasons, 1 if both subs are crit diving, the one with the last shot gets to come up first and get the next first shot. When firing the last shot, it can be too your advantage to put it on long range, so the torp moves more slowly. 2 too many times, the other sub will dodge your initial salvo and you will want more torpedos to shoot on him.
- Don't be afraid to crit dive early. Often an enemy sub will be turning close to me and fire off his aft torpedo tubes. When I see his back pointed to me, I will crit dive immediately. If I wait until the shot is fired, he will hit me. If you have a ship with HHs in the area, stay down longer, so he can fire at the enemy without hitting you.
- Use reverse - many enemy subs won't think about using this and it can give you an advantage on the maneuvering.

With SS5, the TBs are great for ASW. Use them to attack the enemy while in crit. He will then go into crit and you can come out of it! More in a later post.

That's it for tonight. I will try to get out sailors and tricks against ASW ships in the near future.
As always -- Happy Hunting!!

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    07. 03. 2011 21:42 PST


GHHalley

Originally Posted by NIborGER
Originally Posted by jjay8
what would be your recommendation for ss3. 2 planemans and 1 sonarman? thanks


1planes and 1 sonar are enough. Better place a engy in the supportslot. I am not sure but sonar dont stack and i think planesman not too meaning only the planesman with highest ability will count and the other one is dead wight.



They don't stack and Seaman don't help either. Planes and Sonarman don't theoritically cap out, but practically, they do as the increase gained per level are too small to be noticable.  After so many games of not being able to see an incoming sub, I am amazed at my sonar man now -- at level 97, he sees almost as far under the ocean as my level 103 BO does when I am on the surface. I would not trade the sailor for 25 million.

Sonar is the most critical position for a sub for ASW combat. Typically, the sub who sees the other guy first, wins.  The ability to see makes all of the difference fighting another sub and fighting surface ships.
    This is particularly true for the low and mid tier subs, where torpedos can roughly outrange sonar.  Once you get into a higher level T4 crew, the sonar sees beyond the range that an enemy sub can fire at you, so the element of surprise is no longer the critical factor in ASW.  

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    07. 05. 2011 12:24 PST


Blazer4show
Originally Posted by GHHalley
Originally Posted by NIborGER
Originally Posted by jjay8
what would be your recommendation for ss3. 2 planemans and 1 sonarman? thanks


1planes and 1 sonar are enough. Better place a engy in the supportslot. I am not sure but sonar dont stack and i think planesman not too meaning only the planesman with highest ability will count and the other one is dead wight.



They don't stack and Seaman don't help either. Eventually I believe the planesman maxes out, but the sonarman does not seem to. After so many games of not being able to see, I am amazed at my sonar man now -- at level 97, he sees almost as far under the ocean as my level 103 BO does when I am on the surface. I would not trade the sailor for 25 million.

Sonar is the most critical position for a sub. The ability to see makes all of the difference fighting another sub and fighting surface ships.



In regards to Sonar Ability, this was adalberts findings:


The TSR of a submarine without a Sonarman on board is 3.0
As soon as a sonarman is on board, it 'jumps' up to 9.25, even if he has 0 recruits and/or
0 ability.
To get further TSR, you need more true potential ability on your sonarman.

TSR 9.25 > 0
TSR 10.5 > 620k
TSR 11.75 > 1160k
TSR 13.0 > 2130k

It will hardly be possible to go above that, since it requires an ability far beyond 3mil
and even an elite BO at lvl120, classed as Sonarman doesn't get there with a 'normal'
amount of vets.

  • Re : IJN Sub Guide

    07. 05. 2011 14:38 PST


Rick5000
I have ijn ss4.
My opinion:


A good, very nice sub to kill any bb you like. With my crew and fast rld time i can go 25/35 Knts for 65 sec long OH time.
Not the max. speed but its the OH time which counts.
I have killed kaiser, and much of other ships (especialy richelieu's lol)
Unfortunately it has a pretty well big hitbox, not that big but, bigger = worser....

Short: A big powerfull underwater BB eater. It's worth grinding (or just like me get a cv, play, and get lvl 77 & BO reset, buy a crew for 150M and there you go)

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