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  • dd armor

    11. 14. 2011 17:30


n_scott_88
I have a quick question. Most topics I've seen on the forum always say armor for the USN is pointless. But I put an inch of belt on my DDX and it seemed to help. Not against BB's or CA's of course, but against other DD's it seems to work fine.

I've gone up against other DDX's or Z99's and the armor seems to give a little edge in the kind of close range slugging matches that usually develop between DD's. And since it only cost me a know of speed, I'm wondering it its worth chugging along at 50 knots if it lets me survive a firefight longer.

 

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 14. 2011 18:09


shagall
That might help slightly in dd vs dd fights at times but you should not be playing to just beat one ship
but to beat ships higher than your tier, survive, and then still be able to fight several other ships. Most
people feel it's a win if they survive with 100 HP after beating a similar dd. To me that's a loss.
Only an armored UK DD should be in a slugfest.
Sorry I think I ranted lol.
Another thought is, you can only make that observation if the ship you face is always the same with the
same setup. One game you might face a DDX with 6" guns and take a lot of damage. You put on
a bit of armor and next game you face a DDX with 5" guns then it might seem like your armor is working
but it was the opponents' conditions that changed. Consider there are are many guns, nations, shell
types and unless you do a controlled test, you might be wasting the armor.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 14. 2011 19:48


megabstr
im pretty sure one inch of belt doesnt do anything. It may have seemed to help but it was most likely against other DDs who were using weaker guns. (and no, i dont know the exact amount of belt needed to bounce different caliber shells)

i like to put 0.3 belt on all my ships to reduce a bit of torpedo damage just in case.

and the "slugging matches" really shouldnt happen if u want improve and take on more than one ship in a game. Speed and range are what will keep you alive.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 14. 2011 23:30


shagall
There might be slight changes such as reducing by a few %. Yes vs a similar DD it could help but in that
kind of match you will still end up damaged too much. Your priority should be speed and avoiding damage
completely. Many people fight slugging matches but that's not the way it will be at higher levels. So if you
want to armor I think UK would be the choice. As a note, I put about 6 inch belt armor to get 0 damage from
most small ships.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 16. 2011 02:58


normpearii
Doesn't work that way.


It either hits for is normal damage

Or gets bounced.


1" of belt won't bounce anything but belt fired but maybe KM Flak guns.

Don't get used to armor on US, the only really effect ships are the New Orleans. Even then I would prefer the speed than the armor.

.2-.5 belt max (30%-70% torp damage reduction, note over .5 changes are minimal and almost non-existent.

bulge til just before losing a knot of OH.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 16. 2011 12:03


megabstr
Originally Posted by shagall

There might be slight changes such as reducing by a few %. Yes vs a similar DD it could help but in that
kind of match you will still end up damaged too much. Your priority should be speed and avoiding damage
completely. Many people fight slugging matches but that's not the way it will be at higher levels. So if you
want to armor I think UK would be the choice. As a note, I put about 6 inch belt armor to get 0 damage from
most small ships.


again, 1" belt armor wont do anything. You wont reduce the damage by using in-sufficient armor.
and remember, when we say "bounce off shells," it means that the shell damage is either reduced by a significant level or to 0.

Also, i really doubt 6" belt will do anything against some CLs and CAs. There's no point in slowing the ship down that much just to kill a few DDs and just end up getting killed by CL/CA. Aim higher.

and lastly, if you play your ship right, other kinds of armor will be more beneficial to you if you insist on armoring. *hint hint* (not on the ddx tho)

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 16. 2011 18:23


store89
Thought I'd chime in for a sec.
Significant damage reduction can be difficult to define for smaller ships.
For example, I've fought many DDXs in my time. Normally they take 200-300 damage off my NDD.
I came across one that had armor. It reduced damage to about 125-200 which with my limited
ammo made me angry. So 1 belt could be a slight reduction but I likely wouldn't even notice.
I guess I'm trying to answer this in the context of how the OP is playing which is vs other ships with
smaller caliber weapons. Armoring US ships though is not going to pay off in the long run.

~ I put about 6.2 belt on L class. I can randomly bounce 6" and 5"s consistently or reduce damage
to low double digits. I believe back in the day, they called me a hacker for that :(

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 16. 2011 22:03


n_scott_88
I've already read all the guides I could for USN ships so I know that long term armoring isn't really viable. I keep about 0.2 belt on my Atlanta, plus as much bulge as I can without losing more than a knot of speed but thats it. That seems to be the max recommended by consensus. I was just curious if anyone else had noticed anything similar when going up against other dd's, not trying to spark so heated a debate. Obviously people have some strong opinions on the subject. And yes I never thought it would help against cl/ca's but not much does except jinking like crazy and firing as fast as you can.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 17. 2011 02:15


store89
Originally Posted by n_scott_88

not trying to spark so heated a debate. Obviously people have some strong opinions on the subject.


This is a good conversation. I know Mega and we play together and are in the same fleet.
DD armor isn't viable as stated except for maybe UK and even then, a strong opponent will likely know how
to counter you.
I use range and one scenario vs an armored ship: I will still do enough damage to a US ship but it
will keep me distracted for longer and drain my ammo. But their slower speed will allow me to keep them
at a distance longer.
Without armor, I will do much more damage but the chance of the opponent getting closer and doing
measurable damage to me will be higher. But I consider myself an experienced blitz DD player and so
every situation will be slightly different.
The most annoying thing to watch is me and Mega in our NDDs, fighting at max range. People get so
irritated because they're so used to playing a slugfest.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 23. 2011 06:25


Lionel2
Originally Posted by store89



This is a good conversation. I know Mega and we play together and are in the same fleet.
DD armor isn't viable as stated except for maybe UK and even then, a strong opponent will likely know how
to counter you.
I use range and one scenario vs an armored ship: I will still do enough damage to a US ship but it
will keep me distracted for longer and drain my ammo. But their slower speed will allow me to keep them
at a distance longer.
Without armor, I will do much more damage but the chance of the opponent getting closer and doing
measurable damage to me will be higher. But I consider myself an experienced blitz DD player and so
every situation will be slightly different.
The most annoying thing to watch is me and Mega in our NDDs, fighting at max range. People get so
irritated because they're so used to playing a slugfest.


There is a lot of truth to the use of using range to beat armor. However, in real war thats what the UK WWI battle cruiser concept was built around. The reality is that you can't always chose the range you fight at. I have a mix of mostly unarmored and armored USN ships. One or two of the CAs were real monsters when set properly. BUT if I could go back in time, I had stripped down my best BVE crew and armored the ship. I think I would have done the opposite and used the SD instead of the armor, because the benefit of doing that is that you also get the bonus of the repair from the sailors too.

  • Re : dd armor

    11. 23. 2011 12:16


n_scott_88
My question for that would be are you really "beating" the armor on the ship at range? My understanding, both from the game and real life is that at range you aren't really beating armor, but going around it. The whole idea of the immunity zone was that at close range your belt would protect you, up to a certain distance which was the lower bound of the immunity zone. Any distance farther away than this lower bound, shells would bounce off your belt armor until you reached the upped bound of the zone, after which the shells would be falling at a high enough angle they would hit your deck armor instead, with enough force left to punch through.

From what I know of the game, most people neglect the deck, so at long ranges shells tend to hit unarmored sections of the ship. Plus there's a bonus for HA attacks, which is why its recommended for lower level ships. Its something I've been trying to work on with my Atlanta, but my BO and gunners aren't really high enough to always make it work quite yet.

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