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  • Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 05. 2013 23:29

Recommend : 0

akimoto_Akir

for so long havent ever try to write something

 

 

 

Shell in NF

we got 3 defferent kinds of shells

 

Torp

Gun Shells

DiveBomber's bomb

 

 

First lets talk about sth general

 

Shell Damage depends on 2 parts

HE damage and AP damage

all shells ,anything that could damage things ,the damage part relay on HE part and AP part

 

 

 lets talk about Torp

guys all know that

Torps have a great damage right

heres a pic of IJN Type93 M3 Oxygen Heavy Torp

you can see some useful information on it

 

HE damage:18361

AP damage: no

 

thats enough

HE damage 18361 means this shell's HE part will give you a nomally 18361 damage when hit u

 

 

did i just metioned all shell has 2 damage parts? AP and HE?

 

yes ,you r right

guys know why all ships no matter you want high speed or thick armor you will take 0.2 belt at least ?cuz this

Torp damage also contain 2 parts : HE damage and AP damage

but in Torp ,the AP damage was almost 0

but ,it still has an effect

i named it "Penetrated Effect"

 

when a shell want to give your ship full damage ,he gotta penetrate your armor and explode inside right

 

you can see from Armor set up board

when you take 0.2belt on your ship, your belt will have a 1 AP defence and 0 HE defence

before you take the belt ,a Type93M3 heavy will give you 18361 damage when directly hit your ship

after you take the belt, you will take much less like close to 50% full damage ,like 9k per torp

why?

that 1 AP defence work

trop has no AP attack ,which means his penetration ability is almost 0, but still have 

when u taking nothing on your belt ,that almost 0 penetration ablilty works ,gives your ship a full damage 18k

 

but when u take the belt 0.2 which gives you 1 AP defence ,the torps' almost 0 penetration ability will be "useless"(though it work on 0 belt XD)

the torp will be a "unpenetrate" states

the result is : HE part been weaken

about how much? 50%

 

if guys play in Blitz or face the kita torp wall  you will understand my meaning

i just try to explain them in a scientific way XD

 

Conclude from information above

 

torp works like shell ,which has AP part damage and HE part

when you take some armor that provide more than 1 AP defence to make the "Torp's penetration effect"fails

you can mostly weaken the torps attk by 50%

 

lets put it further

 

if you continou load up belt ,wil it works more?

the answer is

YES

but works very little

the weaken effect will mostly like that

you can see , after the 0.2 belt(1 AP defence) the rest belt do very few jobs

 and from 1”to 5“ to 10" to 20", not a linear funtion XD

every time armor number almost double ,but effect only increase by several percent ,and can your ship take belt that much?

obviously most cant 

 

 

why will be result like that?

cuz after you use 1 AP defence to remove the “penetration effect” from the shell{torp}

the working damage part will be only real HE damage 

HE damage is really hard to weaken after you weaken them half by remove the "penetration effect"

the rest HE part just work well  ,like in WOT,Though IS-7 has a crazy head to bounce most shell ,but when -7 has only 50HP and a short 128mm gun use HE to hit him ,-7 dead obviously XD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

========================================================================

OK lets expand the thing we got about the torps to all shells

 

Gun shells

 

 

 

this expand will be alittle bit far XD

this is the example shell i gotta show here

 

QV's HE shell

Caliber :18"

HE damage :1730

AP shell AP bonus :3

Shell weight:1760 kg

 

From the test we can know that

this gun HE shell 's deck shot (white color)penetration ablility at 30 degree range 37.4

is 9.2" of RN deck

9.2" RN deck has 73 AP defence

which means at that angle that range QV's HE shell will be bounced when target has 9.2" of RN deck or the same AP defence other nation's deck armor

 

 

most of time when our BB6 take QV's shell ,

the damage number will be like 623  to 450

most time will be like 623 620 621 619 ,which means a shell gives you damage 6230 6200 6210 6190

 

infact this damage concludes 2 parts

AP part and HE part

as we know ,all BB6's APHC is 4500(if you know nothing about this you should click the little X at top right your windows)

and with the QV's shellweight ,caliber ,we can see that QV 's HE shell can easily reach the ship's APHC at full angle

 

so ,the damage for example 6230 will be like 

4500 ship APHC +1730's shel

 

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 06. 2013 21:47


akimoto_Akir

Originally Posted by CabaL90

Whats up with the Asian kid?

and how much of this is copied and pasted and from where?

 

Copy and paste?

oh dear

i guess u should try google all i write and try to find if there is anything the same in other forum

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 06. 2013 21:53


akimoto_Akir

Originally Posted by Cracko

Yes, i agree with most you say.

But your deck values ... i tested weeks ago a nebby against L2 with 21.0 Deck and it didn't bounce shells, neither from Amagi or P24.

These are the results i have, and btw sometimes they change things, last ones were on the RM BB6s, idk if test team was aware of that.

 


 

 

emmm

formt he number u show ,i guess u did alot of research right XD

 

but

i find something special when shell flys further than the average range

 

for example

MOnty lvl 100 gun shot 11.7in of deck QV at 36.6 45degree

11.7" of RN deck can bounce them all

but when you put QV at 37,which is the end of that small highlight green dot

some monty's shell at 45degree will spread out to 37

than those monty's shell will totally penetrate the deck even i take 11.8 or 12.0

 

and BTW

the number i gave about nebby

i find my mistake

thats 39 degree 's range 38 data

40degree at max range 38.2

nothing can bounce it XD

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 07. 2013 00:45


danita

If you think about it, it's not that surprising that the range jumps further away penetrate better than the average range shells.
Assuming that the graphic representation of the shells in flight mimics the underlying formula's, the shells that fly further take a higher arc through the air than the one's that fall at the average range. It would not be unlogical to assume that those shells that fly further have more vertical energy when they land, because they came down from a greater height. Since vertical energy is one of the bigger if not the biggest factor in determining how much deck armor a shell can penetrate, having more vertical energy would mean the ability to penetrate more deck armor.
It wouldn't surprise me if the shells that fall short of the average range, would penetrate less deck armor.

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 07. 2013 06:31


akimoto_Akir

Originally Posted by danita

If you think about it, it's not that surprising that the range jumps further away penetrate better than the average range shells.
Assuming that the graphic representation of the shells in flight mimics the underlying formula's, the shells that fly further take a higher arc through the air than the one's that fall at the average range. It would not be unlogical to assume that those shells that fly further have more vertical energy when they land, because they came down from a greater height. Since vertical energy is one of the bigger if not the biggest factor in determining how much deck armor a shell can penetrate, having more vertical energy would mean the ability to penetrate more deck armor.
It wouldn't surprise me if the shells that fall short of the average range, would penetrate less deck armor.

 

 

 

SO i gotta say ,this is a great game

the jump shell make the system "thought" this shell has a higher shoting angle, like the Monty's jump shell , judge system may thought it came from like a 45.5 degree shoting

 

 

BTW

the angle controling system in NF is not 1 degree by 1 degree

press ctrl and control the gun angle up and test the range ,you will find something special XD

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 07. 2013 06:42


Cracko

Akimoto, about torps this a very precise test about them, shows the same but with more precision.

Notice how after the "bouncing" of the 0.2 belt the reduction is completly linear.

Test were very precise because if you aim to the exact center of the ship you get the same damage value with a very, very, very small variation.

 

With shell it's impossible to test, too many variation.

 

What we can conclude is this i guess:

-A HE shell has "kinetic damage" and "explosive damage".

-That "kinetic damage" is limited to 4.500 per shell maximum.

-Shells bounce at certain amount of deck, under that amount deck doesn't affect to damage (or at least, not significantly, very hard to test).

-When a HE shell gets bounced the "kinetic damage" completly dissapears and the "explosive damage" gets reduced by half or even dissapears too.

-------------

 

Btw, these were the last changes on the RM BB6, i'm not sure if they were done for nerf the armor penetration ability of they were done AFTER that.

 

Old RM BB6:

Muzzle velocity 972 m/s

Shell weight  160 Kg

Nameless parameter of the shell: +12

 

Current RM BB6:

Muzzle velocity 923 m/s

Shell weight 322,2

Nameless parameter of the shell: +31

 

 

 

 

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 07. 2013 08:35


richardphat
  1. Shells are basically APC shell, with or with not HE damage. That became obvious, when the crack value are posted in old ONF board. It's how that work in order to nerf all SN, RM, and fix the KM guns.

    More retarded from SDE, they put an asymptotic cap for every caliber up to 4500. Which means you could see low caliber with ULTRA heavy shell weight and it will do crap damage compare to other bigger caliber and lower.

    Take example of IMperatrista Mariya, back there in the test server they had 12" and over 1200 kg for every shell with the max alpha of 50k. They lack of damage compare to Stalingrad when back there it has lighter and has less HE value.

  2. AP bonus is simple. It adds the penetration ability and depending on the gun caliber, the damage is increased in a non linear way.

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 08. 2013 00:41


akimoto_Akir

Originally Posted by Cracko

Akimoto, about torps this a very precise test about them, shows the same but with more precision.

Notice how after the "bouncing" of the 0.2 belt the reduction is completly linear.

Test were very precise because if you aim to the exact center of the ship you get the same damage value with a very, very, very small variation.

 

With shell it's impossible to test, too many variation.

 

What we can conclude is this i guess:

-A HE shell has "kinetic damage" and "explosive damage".

-That "kinetic damage" is limited to 4.500 per shell maximum.

-Shells bounce at certain amount of deck, under that amount deck doesn't affect to damage (or at least, not significantly, very hard to test).

-When a HE shell gets bounced the "kinetic damage" completly dissapears and the "explosive damage" gets reduced by half or even dissapears too.

-------------

 

Btw, these were the last changes on the RM BB6, i'm not sure if they were done for nerf the armor penetration ability of they were done AFTER that.

 

Old RM BB6:

Muzzle velocity 972 m/s

Shell weight  160 Kg

Nameless parameter of the shell: +12

 

Current RM BB6:

Muzzle velocity 923 m/s

Shell weight 322,2

Nameless parameter of the shell: +31

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

emmm  i know the data well but cant find the pic...so i draw it in windows drawing board......

not that precise.....

i wanna tell the same ur pic gave

and from the further test

1 AP bonus maybe= 35% of original penetration bonus

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 08. 2013 02:34


Kogard

Originally Posted by akimoto_Akir

SO i gotta say ,this is a great game

the jump shell make the system "thought" this shell has a higher shoting angle, like the Monty's jump shell , judge system may thought it came from like a 45.5 degree shoting

BTW

the angle controling system in NF is not 1 degree by 1 degree

press ctrl and control the gun angle up and test the range ,you will find something special XD

Need confirmation...

So AP shells less effective on low angle guns? Working less effect at lower angle with the same gun? No matter how long the range the gun has.

 

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 08. 2013 10:36


richardphat

@above
No, because you have other values.

Take example of QV AP vs H44 AP at max range. The QV is way way better at 30 vs 37 from 44.



2)The AP bonus effect itself is also a non linear function. You won't get the same proportion buff with a low caliber vs bigger caliber.

  • Re : Part1: about Shell Damage

    02. 08. 2013 23:22


akimoto_Akir

Originally Posted by richardphat

@above
No, because you have other values.

Take example of QV AP vs H44 AP at max range. The QV is way way better at 30 vs 37 from 44.



2)The AP bonus effect itself is also a non linear function. You won't get the same proportion buff with a low caliber vs bigger caliber.

 

QV's gun cuz it SWC is way way way higher than J44's new gun

so ,if we take QV's SWC as 1

the H44's new gun will be 0.69

H44 need to add like 35% AP bonus(+1)

so it will be 0.93

1*sin30degree *range 37.6=1*0.5*37.6=18.8

0.945*sin37degree*range 37=0.93*0.6*37=20.6


 

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