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How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
08. 12. 2011 14:41
jikemenkins
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Im confused by what i read on the forum. Is there an ability cap for Restore, Repair, Engineer?
If so, how many Elite/Boosted (100 Vets) sailors to get to the cap for each catigory. I have seen BB5 that repair Extreamly fast, and i thought to myself when i get to BB i want to do that.
Thanks for you help.
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 03:12
EricIdle
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And you are not wiling to enlighten us, Richard?
I am in the process of checking the speed cap tables for the eng TA required, and will put this in relation to the 7/8 hybrids' eng TA to see how they would compare.
OK, for H44 I found the following (always assuming that LordKelvin's speed cap table still holds):
- the speed cap is at around 8.4 MTA.
According to LK, 5 "class B" engies would reach the cap at level 107. They would give 173s OH time. Together with 2 elite reps of the same level (100 vets, rest experts), these engies would give (at base 10 repair) 13.36 M repair ability.
7 Hybrid engies (classed from "support sailor" to "2nd engineer" at level 65) would do that at the same level if they have at least 135 vets (rest experts, of course). Those 7 hybrids would give 201s OH time, and their combined rep ability would be at 15.9 MTA.
Hope I didn't make a mistake somewhere...
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 06:34
Kakkarot
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Originally Posted by EricIdle
And you are not wiling to enlighten us, Richard?
I am in the process of checking the speed cap tables for the eng TA required, and will put this in relation to the 7/8 hybrids' eng TA to see how they would compare.
OK, for H44 I found the following (always assuming that LordKelvin's speed cap table still holds):
- the speed cap is at 8.39 MTA.
According to LK, 5 "class B" engies would reach the cap at level 107. They would give 173s OH time. Together with 2 elite reps of the same level (100 vets, rest experts), these engies would give (at base 10 repair) 13.36 MTA.
7 Hybrid engies (classed from "support sailor" to "2nd engineer" at level 65) would do that at the same level if they have at least 135 vets (rest experts, of course). Those 7 hybrids would give 201s OH time, and their combined rep ability would be at 15.9 MTA.
Hope I didn't make a mistake somewhere...
I ran those numbers in my excel and it all is correct. However, I think its important to assume the same number of vets for the best comparison. Heres what I got with a comparison of 5 elite engis +2 elite reps compared to 7 hybrids base 11/11 (lv 107, 135 vets) Hybrid (Converted @ 55) Overheat Time 207 Repair 15,409,738 OH Maxspeed 8,620,895 Hybrid (converted @ 65) Overheat Time 202 Repair 15,947,929 OH Maxspeed 8,399,563 Elite Crew (5 eng 2 rep) Total Rep 13,395,143 Total OH (Seconds) 194 OH Maxspeed 9,559,896 However, the same sailors @ 200 vets each is : Hybrid (converted @ 55) Overheat Time 243 Repair 18,052,569 OH Maxspeed 10,099,412 Hybrid (converted @ 65) Overheat Time 237 Repair 18,707,331 OH Maxspeed 9,852,904 Elite Crew (5 eng 2 rep) Total Rep 15,510,311 Total OH (Seconds) 226 OH Maxspeed 11,096,730 -Basically, the difference does not seem to be that much when its near 100 vets, but as the number of vets increase, so does the difference between the hybrids and the regular crew (because the hybrids have fewer recruits, making their vets more potent)
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 06:52
Kakkarot
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This is how it breaks down @ 115 and 200 vets.
Hybrid (12/11, converted @ 55)
Overheat Time 314
Repair 24,343,743
OH Maxspeed 12,208,551
elite (5 eng 3 rep)
Total Rep 22,444,446
Total OH (Seconds) 257
OH Maxspeed 12,629,126
Results
2mil more rep
nearly 60 seconds more overheat..!
very comparable OH maxspeed multipliers
an 11/11 hybrid crew would still have more rep, but not by much. gogo 12/11, or even 11/12 and consider converting a bit later.
Edit:
Uploaded a copy of my KM excel sheet....basically its for anyone to use. its somewhat user friendly but it will let you make mistakes if you aren't careful...I'm working to make one of these for each nation.
Basically just fill in the info on the first page, make sure to enter all your engi's at the top or is screws up the OH maxspeed calc. Make sure to enter the correct levels where u classed your sailors. If they're wrong, then the total recruits on the sailor will be off.
It can be found here, I think anyone can download the file:
-deleted-
Double edit-
Nevermind, something got screwed up with google docs when I uploaded. I'll work it out and repost a working version
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 13:11
danita
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[QUOTE=Kakkarot]
[-Basically, the difference does not seem to be that much when its near 100 vets, but as the number of vets increase, so does the difference between the hybrids and the regular crew (because the hybrids have fewer recruits, making their vets more potent)
[/QUOTE]
This statement has me wondering, do you mean to tell us that you're using a sailor that consist of vets and recruits but no experts????
A larger crew on a sailor doesn't mean more recruits on him, but more experts (and more vets if at the vet cap).
For the purpose of planning a crew noone should use any serious amount of recruits on his sailors, a few or maybe a few 10's of recruits but serious sailors should all consist of vets and experts.
Also for the purpose of calculating the TA of a sailor, having fewer recruits making vets more potent is quite a wrong statement, if at full crew a sailor's TA= ( no. experts+ 4* no vets) * ability afterall, recruits don't play a part in it at all unless you don't fill up your sailors.
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 13:26
richardphat
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I am not helping anyone to know at the end I am wasting my time, most of the time.
From my experience of helping people, knowing they just do the opposite you tell them.
Only few exceptions, and my counter haven't exceed 4-5 people that do the perfect things I told them. So far, they are the few that do serious stuff and do whatever to seek enlightment.
Edit:
And I did implicitly help you. What happen to your 7-8 delay class engie that you spend so much time at re-training, when a normal roll 4/4 or 3/5 has the same effect as your 7/8 soft engies? If the normal lvl up requires, 10-20 vets more, don't bother retraining the whole things when there's an easier alternative.
In order to have a serious effect with soft engie, you will really need shitload of vets on them.
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 14:45
Kakkarot
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[QUOTE=danita]
[QUOTE=Kakkarot]
[-Basically, the difference does not seem to be that much when its near 100 vets, but as the number of vets increase, so does the difference between the hybrids and the regular crew (because the hybrids have fewer recruits, making their vets more potent)
[/QUOTE]
This statement has me wondering, do you mean to tell us that you're using a sailor that consist of vets and recruits but no experts????
A larger crew on a sailor doesn't mean more recruits on him, but more experts (and more vets if at the vet cap).
For the purpose of planning a crew noone should use any serious amount of recruits on his sailors, a few or maybe a few 10's of recruits but serious sailors should all consist of vets and experts.
Also for the purpose of calculating the TA of a sailor, having fewer recruits making vets more potent is quite a wrong statement, if at full crew a sailor's TA= ( no. experts+ 4* no vets) * ability afterall, recruits don't play a part in it at all unless you don't fill up your sailors.
[/QUOTE]
I misspoke. Fewer total recruits......as in entire crew size. cmon man...
and @ richard-
re-read what I said. Soft engi crew has more true ability than an elite crew @ 100 vets vs 100 vets, and exponentially more ability @ 200 vets vs 200 vets.
You seem bitter ^.~
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 09. 2011 15:14
richardphat
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Soft engies does not necessarily means more true abiity.
Soft engies depends on when you class it, and how you experts, vets them and how you roll your sailors.
Like I said, you know or you don't know how to do it.
If you don't know how to class your soft engies, then you're f****d and a regular class sailors will probably outperform your crew in overall.
If you know how to class them, then great for anyone who does that. Everything left is just a question on are you willing to spend 400-600$ + to super vet them or ready to spend a great ammount of time aa and waiting for event.
I am not bitter. It is just people start making idea when you state fact.
People don't like when you destroy their daydreaming when the fact is minority of the people reading this will be serious enough at taking time understanding this, taking time doing this, and /or maybe spending a fortune on this.
Better wake the other people instead of leaving them in their irrealistic day dreaming because at the end they realize that their crew fail and will regret it.
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 10. 2011 00:24
MESY
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first of all, I am talking about all boosted sailor
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3 normal vetted elite repair + 7 normal vetted engineer
equal to
4 normal vetted elite repair + 6 normal vetted elite engineer
both do not reach cap
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3 x 200 vet elite repair equal 4 x 200 vet elite repair (and full set of 200 vet sailors)
this don't reach cap yet
3 x 300 vet elite repair equal 5 x 200 vet elite repair (and full set of 200 vet sailors)
yet it reach cap
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and new cap was increased by 10-20% with the same effect? i don't know
and it is no scientific calculation. it is only about the money going to cost you
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 10. 2011 08:24
EricIdle
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Originally Posted by MESY
and new cap was increased by 10-20% with the same effect? i don't know
and it is no scientific calculation. it is only about the money going to cost you
Well, it's that muddled-up reasoning that is the problem with so many people. What cap was increased 10-20%? The only ones I know of are ACC and REL.
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Re : How many Elite/Boosted Rep/Rest to hit cap?
10. 10. 2011 08:46
EricIdle
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Originally Posted by richardphat
People don't like when you destroy their daydreaming when the fact is minority of the people reading this will be serious enough at taking time understanding this, taking time doing this, and /or maybe spending a fortune on this.
Better wake the other people instead of leaving them in their irrealistic day dreaming because at the end they realize that their crew fail and will regret it.
You are quite right, Richard. This game attracts "daydreamers", to put it as mildly as you did. Not everybody here is stupid, though, and some people here are good at maths (not me - there are much better people around). The "soft engy" problem has more than one optimal solution - you have to state the objective for optimisation. So, for me it is tempting (I haven't started to level crew yet) to look at 8 engies that can reach speed caps at the same level as LordKelvin's "engies class B", while limiting hypervetting (let's say, 130-135 vets). If I take engies with 11/x/11, I need to find the optimum point to class them. It is at level 65 that they fulfill all the above conditions. At level 120, those would give around 21.7 M rep ability. Two elite reps with 135 vets as well would bring this to 31 M ability. With a BO that has good repair and gunners and a scout with repair base +10, that will get us very close, if not over the repair cap (which is at 35M and hasn't changed AFAIK), and with economical means. The engies OH time would be 290s, if I'm not mistaken. That is a minute longer than with regular engies. The 5 engies with 135 vets and 10 repair base, together with 5 elite reps would give the same repair (~ 31M), but less OH time. Of course, in both cases, you forego AA, which I don't think is a good idea with KM.
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