I don't really see much of a difference between Obama and Bush anymore other then
political affiliation. They both seem to be following the same trends when it comes to
hyper partisanship, war, large gov, grabbing more power for themselves and terrorism.

The only difference I do see is that Bush could be a stubborn mule who made up his mind
quickly and wouldn't change course for God almighty. While Obama is the exact opposite in
that regard. Slow to make up his mind to the point of insanity and can be swayed by a
gnats fart in china.

@cf
If someone states their opinion and you don't like it debate with them. If someone states
a fact you don't think is true find proof. Simply saying someone you disagree with watches
fox news makes you sound stupid and partisan.

you can so tell who in this thread has been watching FOX news

Sorry, but when your the LONE superpower in the world, you get looked up to because you
can do most of the things needed. You can whine about Obama, but didn't he inherit Iraq
and Afghanistan? You (and Britain because Blair was Dubyas poodle) invaded Iraq to spread
freedom via 300,000 tonnes of bombs.

Excellent job George W Bush.

I'm taking a Government/Economics in high school right now.
My thoughts on this.
Obama said that no troops will be sent out, I find this to be a load of crap. I give it
another 2-3 weeks, and we will see troops in lybia. This cease fire/no-fly zone is just a
waste of time. The UN/Nato will have troops over there soon. And to add to that, the
democrats have tried to get over 560 amendments added to the last 8 bills that have tried
to been passed, I'm 17 years old, and I cannot vote yet, but I will not Vote obama, when
he runs again, because I will be 18 by then. He's pretty much turned the USA in a parden
my french, Shithole. He is going to cause a government shutdown, there is no doubt,
Everybody bashes George W. Bush Jr all the time, because they say he's made a mess of
everything. He did an excellent job in my opinion, He had to deal with the crap that
Clinton left him. Yes Bush did create some none-effective bills, But he HAD, (I use the
word had loosely), Got the USA back on the right track, Then Obama takes over, and he's
doing pretty much the same thing as Clinton, You can't just send Jet's to bomb an area,
and then say it's all good, You have to send ground troops to get to the people that need
to be dead. You have to show to the country your attacking that your not messing around.
But anyways, that my opinion on things. I look for in the next year or so that the USA
will pretty much be a communistic country.

These conflict resolutions are still based on resources. Libya does contain decent oil reserves. While they weren't
directed to the US, they were towards our allies in Europe. How much African butchery passes relatively unnoticed by
the UN, US or NATO on scales vastly larger?

Bahrain is a strategic resource, the US Navy has basing rights there. So, hush hush on that disturbance. Syria? Very
little in the way of strategic or natural resources, so, nothing will be done there. Assad will cull the dissention and will
be shunned back into the warm embrace of Iran. Unless Israel does something brash, doubtful, but not beyond the
realm of possibilities.

The President is cherrypicking his fights here. He wants to score freedom points without looking like a crusader like
Dubya was. Problem is he waffles, bathes in the gray area and frequently muddles perfectly clear statements. He's all
over the place all the time.

I am against religious extremism, I am even against religions, aggression feeds
religious fanatics more.

ah and besides the side which fights against gaddafi contains these religious zealots
and usa seems to support them, actually gaddafi is not at all religious neither his
country, women having more freedom etc.. now it ll be worst.. since all these so called
democracy movements in middle east, the religious zealots are going to make the most
profit

@Kostanza
Crime? Using a sound analogy is not a crime. Nor was I directly calling them zombies.
However ME's act like mindless zombies in their single mindedness when it comes to non
Muslims. This is just a statement that I believe most would agree with.

I am not attempting to be PC nor do I care if I have somehow offended your fragile
sensibilities. The truth is unfortunately the truth. When a religious zealot believes that
he is on a mission from a god he will act with the single mindedness of a zombie.

You can not reason with them they will just keep coming until the person or persons
pulling the strings tell them to stop. If you do not realize this too bad for you.

@ Nightcrept what the fuck are you talking about seriously ?

Describing a human being as a zombie independent from any of his belief ideology and
whatever is a much more lower-thinking than any religious-extremism, it is even a
crime.

@van
This all boils down to Obama honestly.

The official position of the military is to support the stance of the commander and chief.
However the military members that i regularly talk with who are officers and senior
enlisted are very disheartened by his seeming lack of direction. Most are tired and want
to come home.

It is my opinion that we went to war in libya due to the desire of some of the nations of
the EU. Not due to anything directly affecting the US. So Obama either wants something or
has gotten something in the past that requires us to follow the desires of the others to
go into Libya.



Muslim Extremists:

ME's will take advantage of any situation they can to further the spread of their system
of believes. They believe it is their duty to Allah to do so. I hate to use this analogy
but when dealing with your on the ground ME you need to think in terms of a sci-fi or
horror movie where a few villains control the minds of zombies or Manchurians. They will
just happily come at you until you kill them all. But at the same time the disease that
turns them into these mindless zombies will continue to spread regardless of your actions
or inactions.

In Libya it is my opinion through recent conversations that various ME groups are fighting
on both sides of almost all the middle eastern conflicts. This is the scenario as I see it.

You send in your ME's to fight anonymously on both sides. When one side wins the group you
had fighting with that side stands up and says look at us we have been fighting the whole
time but couldn't reveal ourselves due to the Americans. And the forces you had fighting
for the losing side slink away into the darkness of another conflict.


The ME's are fighting using the standard spec ops style. Go to your local book store and
buy a few books on guerrilla warfare and non-conventional tactics. It will open your eyes
as to the strategies at play here both from the smaller ME forces and the larger nations
perspective.

The biggest problem that I can see right now is Libya, politically and militarily. Right
now we have evidence and ads that the jihadist are taking up arms against Gadhafi
and yet we are supporting those who are against Gadhafi.

So is the enemy of our non-enemy our friend(even though they're our enemy)? Since
we aren't really against Gadhafi yet still supporting the rebels and al Qaeda. Even if
we do back out, France and the UK would be supporting al Qaeda.

Then you have to think of the end game. Our objective was for Gadhafi to no longer
be the leader and for the people to form a democracy. Yet we have al Qaeda
operating within the rebels which isn't a good thing since we are currently fighting
them in Afghanistan and a few left in Iraq.

The benefits of having them there isn't that high, for one they can complain to the
media that the US is against Islam or what have you. Then if they do loose to
Gadhafi they can blame it on the west. If the rebels do succeed then we have to
worry about them making Libya into the next Iran or Afghanist pre-9/11. Which
would be a high possibility since there isn't any western troops in country. The other
o'crap is that weapon stock piles have been raided by al Qaeda already, AA missiles,
explosives, other bad toys that shouldn't be in the hands of these people.

The long shot benefit is helping the rebels, even with al Qaeda, and hoping that the
terrorists don't embed themselves into the country. Another crappy benefit is during
this battle is that all the Jihadist from Saudi Arabia and Egypt would go west instead
of east. Which would relieve our troops of targets but could possibly make more of a
pain in the butt with a Iranian like country. Since Libya in the past have hosted al
Qaeda like terrorists like bin Laden and have overtly ran terror attacks themselves.

So what do we do? Do we help rebels and hope for the best or not do anything and
hope for the best?

Right now Obama seems to be somewhere in the middle, which is basically a position
of nothing. It only puts him in a position to have his foot in the door so that he can
take it out or burst into the room if need be. Indecision at its best...