Yet monty shells don't since they both have same angle, but SY has more range. The
more range you have with high angle shells the longer their in the air, just like
Amagi shells. 6 secs for Amagi, that is proven.

How is it innacurate? Data has been taken either from Trainworld or NF.com websites. All
the non-numerical data is based on my own experience as I have played all of the BB5s. I
admit I might have made a mistake in shell flight time between SY and Monty, but as far as
the stats are concerned, Montana shells SHOULD stay longer in air.

This does not seem very accurate

h44 is definetly stronger than Alsace, the range difference is just too much, to get
compensated by the speed difference. H44 should get 2-3 salvoes on the alsace before its
in range. Thats more than enough to kill it.

PS: Monty spread is WAY better than Alsace, on every level

PPS i think support crew means the stat growth of the support sailors not the number of
support slot, but i gree something is wrong there. For example IJN reps are better than KM
reps, KM eng are better than IJN eng, ijn engs however give more rep ability.

Never in deep checked my MN sailors growth of support stats, so i cant comment on those,
they only give much SD i guess.

Do do realise that USN BB5 and UK I dare say are dangerously close to same
firepower. If not I would say Montana has the most. In my pinion of course, and yes
I have played both so I am not just speaking my mind here. Damage output from the
Alsace I believe is relatively high. I feel the shells punch through SD pretty well
seeing as one turret seems to demolish the majority of it. This is when playing Lion
II. I think the combination of speed, AA, and shell damage makes Alsace pretty darn
competitive against other BB5s. And as far as infrastructure goes, I see no
difference hitting an Alsace than hitting any other BB5. Obviously I don't now how
much SD the enemy player lost, but tyically he (the adversary playing Alsace)
performs at the same level any other BB5 player would...
If this thread is about buffing MN... you can protest if you like. I personally didn't
take time to read the whole thing after I realized this was a complaint about MN BB
competence. "It's supposed to give an insight on why the MN BB5 needs to be
fixed/balanced." I think is a cheap way of saying 'I keep getting owned buff another
nation so I can have the advantage please'... in my opnion, and SOLELY in MY
opinion, I think this is why the player base has declined ever so much since beta.
The correlation between bad players and forumwhoring complaints is ever so
axiomatic...


--jc

I've yet to truley run out of ammo in my Alsace in any battle. Then again I only shoot at
BB/CV and SS that are a threat to me. Alsace forces me to play selfishly but I rather like
the boat. I do agree there are some things wrong with it that should be fixed. The spread
is my main concern but to be honest it's not like a huge problem to me or anything.

This is the closet I've come to completely running out of ammo (didn't post the screen
since it's big):

http://i54.tinypic.com/es8bgg.jpg

Bwahaaaha! still had one shot in the rear turret!

May i say this? floats like a SY stings like a monty!

Fast, strong, good aa, pain in the butt to hit!


only thing i could think of that is wrong with it is

range is slightly less than monty(very very short gap) and spread is ok
last its preaty easy to 1 shot


But over all its a good ship

All this proves is that comparing the stats asuming each stats have equal value is
non-sense. An great example is the DB's. Based on the stat analysis I made with
DB's, UK would have the best DB's if you asume all the stats have equal value.

But, for DB's the only stat that REALLY matters are the damage. Since it has the the
lowest bomb damage, it's considered noob to have them.

Same goes for the fighters...Are T1 planes really better than T4? or even T3? No, not
really. Based on my observation T4 eat away anything in their path.

I have Alsace and H44 and well I have all the bb5's, exept the SY I usually play it in
another person account. In my opinion H44 is still the worse BB5. All Alsace really
needs is more ammo. When I had the Montana, it was a way better ship then it is
today... The monty spread is also prety crappy now.

BTW the range diffrence between SY and L2 can be compared to the range diffrence
between the Monty and Alsace.

Do you even know what structuran strenght does?

Alsace AA =/= montanas AA. There is a reason everybody runs their AA on their
alsace and not on their monty.

Shell damage based on test revealed alsace does more damaga per shell then H44.

Angle is more of an opinion... depending on the ship, it could be an atvantage or a
dissatvatage. A slow ship with high angles is brutal. I have played amagi and QV, I
loved the "easymode" 30 degrees angles and hated the "imposible to hit anything
thats aware of you " 45 degrees angles. 45 great for running, 30 great for rushing
and 40 is good for both. But again, it depends on the players playstyle.

This STATS analysis is manipulated and you did a very crappy job at it.

1)A great example is the shell damage of H44 is less, hello!! angles play a role in the
damage per shell.

2) both monty and alsace sould be red. If not then SY should also be white. SY has
same range as the monty's lvl 110 guns and L2 has a slightly more then both.

3) Angles depends on the player and ship. But I do agree that 40 is better then 45.
But I like 37 more. But that has to do with flight time. I suggest eliminate this as an
relevant stat.

4) Spread of monty is also crappy now, just so you know. Afther the intro of MN
nation, for some reason my lvl 120 block shooting monty started shooting really bad.
I would say at high levels, monty spread = equal to alsace spread. Both have bad
spread.

5) structural streght? wtf? I suggest you test for each nation the damage each ship
receives from each nation. You will get a contradictive result...

6) US AA=/=MN AA. MN AA is well balanced with KM and IJN. The range diffrence
between IJN and MN is about the same to the range diffrence between that of KM
and IJN. MN is best for killing scouts and hard to reach fp's. KM is best for killing fp's
and bombers. IJN is in between. US and UK simply have sad AA. I even like UK's AA at
high levels more then that of US AA. But US has more AA gun slots, making it better.

7) support crew?....why US and KM are orange? all bb5 have exaclly the same
amount -.-" exept L2 has 1 more support slot...

8) You forgot to add aircraft space, but since nobody uses that space anyways OK.
MN has scout with most fuel.

Angle is player preference, since the introduction of MN i dont thinkit has anything to do
with armour peneatration. Alsace has 40 degree guns with rather heavy hells and big
calibre, and gets bounced by everything, Alsace is like Kaiser in that perspective, big
guns rther high angle, and gets bounced by a POW.

PS: H44 gets through most POWs at max angle.

PPS: The Alsace hitbox is definetly broken around its nose, its like the hitbox is a
cuboid that doesnt takes into account the tapering of the bow, seen on the model.

"37* will deal the smallest ammount of damage while 45* will have the longest flight
time and the highest damage. The 40* are the optimum ones, dealing a lot of
damage and will stay relatively short time in air."

This logic is flaw. If there was a ship with guns at 37 degree angle guns and really
high shell weight and damage it would be far superior than to any other angle
higher than itself. The reason for it's betterness, it would be hitting almost always at
the belt. Therefore in your chart it stats that 40 degree angle guns are the best
angle guns to have on a BB5, which is completely false.

The best to have is 45 > 37 > 40. The 45's even with less shell weight of others if
that is the case will make up for the damage of really hard hitting high angles. Also
amazing armor penetration and great range when retreating. Then you have the 37
degree guns, up top on this post I just explained why they are amazing. Then you
have 40 degree guns which are medium damage, hangtime, penetration, and
anything you can think of. There is no clear strenghth over across the board which
make 40 degree angles unique.

It is very clear you are making assumptions on the damage with the angles, and
damage and ship has nothing to do with it. If L2 had the 45 degree guns would the
chart then read that 45 degree guns are in green then instead of red. Just because
certain angles are harder to play with doesn't mean there worse.

Also one more thing the anti arcraft capability, the MN should be equal to the H44.
Since both the H44 and the Alsace have 7 on both sides of AA dual guns shooting, in
360 degrees around the ship. The SY has 8 that puts it a color above the H44 and
MN since you can't look how good the aa is just how many T slots are allowed on
each side.

How the Angle should read is MN BB5 40* in white, the KM BB5 37* in orange, the
RN BB5 in white, the USN BB5 in green, and the IJN BB5 in green.

If you can't get the angle part right, what doesn't say that this whole chart has
more flaws and errors within it?