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  • MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 12:09

richardphat
So for the next proposal, which will be sending next week.


You can refer yourselves to this

http://www.opennavyfield.com/smf/index.php?topic=108.0

For better reading.

Courbet
1560
Bretagne
1500
Lorraine
1360
Paris
1757
Normandie
1749
Lyon
2001
Strassbourg
2250
Richelieu
3032

Alsace
4001

(May have done mistake by quick rewriting this fast)


Short brainstorming and those value just came from my head with quick analyzing.






Courbet Let's try 2000/2200 It has much firepowered compared to BB1. It currently
do 42 knots and have AA. Small hitbox.

Bretagne Let's try 2000/2200 It has 5 R slot per side. Small hitbox. 4 T guns per slot,
but those 4 T guns can do 180 degree.


Lorraine 2000/2200 The only ship that deserve to have the lowest in my opinion, for
BB2. Since it has 4 turrets only. Speed can be discussed along this. Only 2 T slot per
side and a small hitbox


Paris A remod.... very small hitbox. 5 gun per broadside. Less firepower than Lyon,
also it has AA.
I suggest somwhere 2200 to 2400.


Normandie 2200 to 2400 Justified by small hitbox. Massive damage but less than
Lyon. It has AA, but also slightly faster.
Should we increase to Lyon is the discussion.


Lyon 2400/2500 Justified by having a small hitbox. Massive damage . Though it is
slow, we musn't forget that it has also AA.


Strasbourg to 2600/2800 (note this significant increased, is due to the turning force
it's getting and extreme thin profile. I believe this ship deserve well enough to be
able to dodge much easier than other bb3. That alone should be the advantage
and "can't hit me" ability. Plus the speed buff it's getting (47 knots with 120 crew). I
think it is well suited.


Richelieu (Borderline acceptable, though I feel it could be around 3200 since it has
fantastic AA, and it's having damage buff)
But we will see how the patch will turn out to be.

Alsace ( Final shot will be done with bb5 patch. So if next weeks, you see
something wrong, just tell yourself it isn't done yet)

Suggestion, comment, feel something outrageous. Discuss here.



Plus, I stop giving much effort providing the exact value. Takes too much ressources
and I am leaving this to you, so you decide the shot.
  Index

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 30. 2011 06:00

ljsevern
Honestly; The current MN/SN patch is chaos. Things are getting put through that haven't
had previous discussion, and we need to concentrate on tier. There is also not enough
testing.

With regards to submergence numbers; I can get you a list of numbers to fit SN and MN
ships into the current setup. However, could you ask SDE regarding going through the
patches to fix the mistakes of old ONF's?

I mean, having the BSM having one of the best submergence values and Hood with one of
the worst of the BB3's (With NC being the worst) is just wrong.

This is why I would rather go down tier by tier than do each nation at a time.

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 30. 2011 05:41

mailman
I have taken richards numbers mostly.

Point is, if we dont do a request now, it will not happen before the live patch. That's
because we need to see the results ont he testserver and afterwards be able to adjust the
speeds of the ships (because of displacement changes) and then verify those again.

So basically if we don't start on it now, then it won't happen for a while.

MM

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 30. 2011 05:31

ljsevern
There is absolutely no point in putting in these changes when they haven't been discussed
properly, otherwise this will be yet another Angus SN patch.

Currently, the Submergence values for ALL ships are off. Either we fix all ships tier by tier
(the most efficient way), or we give quick fixes to MN/SN now, then risk asking SDE to fix all
ships.

I can give you numbers for SN/MN submergence values MM, but please don't take Angus'
numbers as gospel. Take a wider opinion.

I know there is a spreadsheet with all the numbers kicking around, maybe it is worth posting
that here so that EVERYONE can get an opinion.

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 30. 2011 01:01

mailman
Changes have been put into the request...

Now we will need to adjust speeds afterwards again, but that's not a problem.

MM

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 23:51

richardphat
That is my concern, the only way we can find this more specifically, is do at least couple
of battle test.

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 21:45

angus725
My opinions:

Bretagne: 1500 -> 2200
Courbet: 1560 -> 2250

Paris: 1757 -> 2450
Lorraine: 1360 -> 2400

Lyon: 2001 -> 2350
Normandy: 1749 -> 2400

Stasbourg: 2250 -> 2750 (If TF is at 20)
Stasbourg: 2250 -> 2850 (If TF stays at 21)

Richy: 3032 -> 3550 (If TF is at 19)
Richy: 3032 -> 3650 (If TF is at 20)
Richy: 3032 -> 3750 (If TF is at 21)

Alsace: 4001 -> 4350 (if DP stays as it is currently on test server)
Alsace: 4001 -> 4450 (if DP is increased to close to monty)


This is not just MN patch btw, it will also have SN in it.

SN BB1: 2300 -> 2100

SN Izmail: current -> 2400
SN Gangut: Current -> 2300

SN IM: 1547 (live servers) -> 3000 (current test server) -> 2700

Stalingrad: 3000 (live servers) -> 3452 (current test server) -> 3600

Sovietsky Soyuz: 3480 (live servers) -> 4500 (current test server) -> 4400

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 21:27

ljsevern
Remember, MN is meant to have small ship size, speed, damage and AA. With the lack of
range, weakness against armour, it needs to have low DP (again, a trait), and between RU
and KM absorbsion.

IJN is meant to be the weakest for absorbsion, MN for DP.

Out of all the MN ships, the only one I can think of that doesn't fit in is the Charlemagne and
Richlieu; Charlemagne is big (but won't have the asborption disadvantage), and when
rebalanced will have the speed.

Richlieu on the main servers doesn't have the speed or damage. That will be fixed.

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 18:52

SylverXI
To be honest I think MN should be "generally" in par with US. It was introduced with
the 2nd lowest to first for a reason.

Above average Max.Displacement for the smaller ships with relatively small hitbox
and below average Max.Displacement for ships with above average hitbox.

It has the lowest range on most of it's ships(with exceptions), so it should be able to
resist at least some hits.

Max. Displacement:

Courbet
26000--> 35000-37000(APHC 1560 -> 2100-2220)

Bretagne
25000--> 34000-36000(APHC 1500 -> 2040-2160)
Compared with Nevada. Slightly higher.

Lorraine
28180--> 40000-42000(APHC 1691 -> 2400-2520)
Compared with Colorado. Slightly lower.

Paris
29292--> 41000-43000(APHC 1758 -> 2460-2580)

Normandie
29150--> 41000-43000(APHC 1749 -> 2460-2580)
- AA makes up for speed, firepower for range.
- Compared with Fuso & Ise . Slightly higher.

Lyon
33350--> 44000-46000(APHC 2001 -> 2640-2760)
- AA makes up for speed, firepower for range.

Strasbourg
37500--> 47500-49500(APHC 2250 -> 2850-2970)
Generally compared with Sodak & NoCar. Slightly higher.

Richelieu
50548--> ...(APHC 3032)
Wouldn't change it. Makes up for large hitbox and low range.
Not to mention bad armor penetration and firepower is still not high enough to need
to increase it's Max.displacement.

Alsace
66690--> 69000-71000(APHC 4001 -> 4140-42600)
Compared with Montana. Slightly lower then Monty.

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 18:03

richardphat
Honestly, Lukas, we shouldn't compare and stick 100% with it, with the rest of the other
tier and making them between KM and SN.

SN nerf was due to its range, damage, aa, hitbox.

I know that all bb1 to bb5 values are broken for all tier. Some ship just need to lower
down, some up. The bb1, is broken to hell. Including some KM bb values needs to be down.




That being said, there are somehow exeption in pretty much everything in NF. We won't be
able to directly pull their nation trait.

Plus, some ship are just a mix of other nation. Like Lorraine, her gun disposition, the
gun used. It might have the size, but damage and, compared to us bb2,uk bb2, sn bb2 are
obviously noticeable.



There's also this.
Turning Richelieu into a paperboat for the lowest BB4 range, would be directly asking
people to "sit, leech, aa" If we must adjust it into paper boat, then range, and damage
must be reworked. It's pretty much fine the ship itself on the live server, a small tweak
is sufficient.
I don't know why we're changing so it can go 45 knots with all guns at lvl 120.

Plus, now we're talking into the main subject, since we're skipping from the overkill tiny
hitbox to the standard hitbox. Standard hitbox, that is smaller than any other bb4, but
not as abusive as the bb1,2,3.



Else, some ship deserve to be between SN,and KM.
It's obvious, that Paris, Normandie, and Lyon should be low or close to the sn/km

  • Re : MN submegence last shot,live patch.

    05. 26. 2011 16:31

angus725
Beauchamp, we're talking about a maximum displacement value here, the lower the
value, the less damage a ship takes. L2 has the lowest of all the BB5s.

I'll post my opinion in a while, got to do something.
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