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  • KM Type XXI

    08. 02. 2013 09:02


Ultra_Dog

So I got the new Type XXI sub.  Loaded it up with my crew from the Type IX.  No need for gunner or extra torper.  Put my Chief Seaman on next to 3 engineers, left one open slot and added armor.   Could not add more than trivial amount of armor, even with one support slot empty.  Too low of DP space (less than Type IX).

Played about 4 games, gave up and put it back in harbor, unloaded all my sailors and put them back on the Type IX.  Done.

The six front tubes are nice if you want to put a salvo into a BB, but 6 KM torps will not sink a BB5 even if the salvo hits directly on the hitbox, so it still requires a reload. Without rear tubes, you have to stop in your tracks and wait for a reload. Cannot bypass BB and hit him with your rears. 

Lack of rear tubes is your death.  Anyone that gets behind you will eat you alive.  No gun, cannot even defend against even an FF if you have to surface. 

Poor choice of sub in my opinion.

Oh, and after I got back into the Type IX, I promptly sank several new subs, including Type XXIs, and found myself, as usual, the last sub surviving the game.     The Type XXI provides very little advantage and lot of disadvantages during gameplay.   Watching a TYpe XXI getting hunted by a Fletcher DD was sickening to watch.   Once the DD was on the tail of the sub, it was just a matter of time.  If you find yourself with a DD camped above you, you might as well just surface and let them sink you. 

I had an FF mess with me, I surfaced and drilled him with my pop gun and sank him.  Not an option with new SS. 

Same speed (capped at 34/40)  Same torps, same air supply, same OH duration with engineers, same FCS SS type III, same Engine.            

 

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 05. 2013 03:19


Whatzup

Great Submarine, allmost double in OH time,that will lead in a 1/3 increase in the distance you can travel submerged.

OH time will help a lot in ss/ss fights too.

Why need rear-torps when you have 6  proxi torps in the front?

Overall a good sub and a absolute upgrade compaired to KM ss5.

 

@ Ultra Dog.

Your complaining how bad Km 5.5 is while you run it with ss5 crew....

And why you use a seaman? 

Borrow some KM engys from me and see if that change your view.

 

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 05. 2013 09:48


ruza3cz

Originally Posted by Kriegsmarin

 

And also in 1943 and after so many loses come from inexperienced crews which was killed on first action in many % , or they didnt sunk single ship

About other things its clear to see that you turn around lot of words which zutok say
You just trolling around zutok didnt say km subs must be uber , zutok say its facts about agility in other words if you have small sub and low number of tubes your submarine turns great 
Km have more adventages and you say
"But true is that typ VII and IX heve only one parameter excepional and this was submerged depth" Only lol do you know what is underwater pressure , if some sub go like uboat 250m and allied 100m can you emagine how much stronger the hull of that uboat is , seams you cant

Dont have time for you 2 trols alwayes same 2 ID trolling and lieing about history

Bye trols 

HI Kriegmarin (also known as a KriegLama),

Ma by you dont understand world "exceptional" then I try to explain as as 13years old child. Exceptional is sothing wonderful or much better then the others have. As you said in term of submergance I used to compare somthing which was 2,5 times more then rest world have. Please try ro remember THAT KM and RM  DONT have enought merchmant ship or war ship that can be potencionaly sunk by UK sub capitans, that say to KM was better on basic compare of tonage lost is too easy siplification.

I hope that you understand me.

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 05. 2013 12:56


Ultra_Dog

Originally Posted by Whatzup

Great Submarine, allmost double in OH time,that will lead in a 1/3 increase in the distance you can travel submerged.

OH time will help a lot in ss/ss fights too.

Why need rear-torps when you have 6  proxi torps in the front?

Overall a good sub and a absolute upgrade compaired to KM ss5.

 

@ Ultra Dog.

Your complaining how bad Km 5.5 is while you run it with ss5 crew....

And why you use a seaman? 

Borrow some KM engys from me and see if that change your view.

 



I disagree.  It is NOT a great submarine. It is not better if it cannot regularly, and without question, defeat its lesser sibling, which it can't.   The Type VIIC is better than the Type VIIA, the U-Flak was better than the Type VIIC, the Type IX is better than the U-Flak.  But the Type XXI is NOT better than the Type IX.  Sequentially, SDE has made each tier better than the previous.  I my opinion, I don't see the advantages of the Type XXI being significantly better than the Type IX - to the point that the Type IX is superior in SS vs SS battles, and equal in destructive force with other ships.

   My Type IX crew is as follows: L120 BO, 2 L120 torpers, L120 Sonar, L120 Planesman and 3 L120 Engineers and a L117 Chief Seaman (if I don't use my L117 gunners).  What SS5 crew are you talking about.

When I put that crew on the Type XXI, I can pull 34/40 knots just as easily, the  OH is the same with only 3 engineers and I can easily transit to the enemy line with OH to spare. Since I can already achieve maximum speed, adding two more Engineers would only add a few more seconds of total OH duration, but when OH is run empty the time it takes to recharge = the OH duration (10 secs of recharge = 10 secs of OH...REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY ENGINEEERS YOU HAVE!! )  Getting across no-man's land is only one of many obstacles to encounter.  If I add a lower level engineer, I could lose speed, but only gain a few extra seconds of OH.  L120 BVE KM Chief Engineers aren't cheap.  

The Chief Seaman gives me all the SD and repair I need, along with assisting the Sonar and Planesman, Torp Reload and OH duration.  That's why I use a Seaman.  I would never trade my Chief Seaman for a Repairman/Restorer.

The torps are nice on the new sub and they are devastating to enemy ships, but in SS vs SS battles, I've learned early on how to defeat subs without rear torps...just get behind them.
If the enemy is a bunch of low level subs or none at all, the Type XXI is a potent force to deal with...but I've sank plenty of them already.  Type IX >Type XXI. 

Now if you are new to subs, then you will probably not have a fully developed high-level crew for your SS5, so when you hit L105, you'll probably jump to the Type XXI and think you got a better ship...

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 06. 2013 04:39


Whatzup

Originally Posted by Ultra_Dog

 

My Type IX crew is as follows: L120 BO, 2 L120 torpers, L120 Sonar, L120 Planesman and 3 L120 Engineers and a L117 Chief Seaman (if I don't use my L117 gunners).  What SS5 crew are you talking about.

A seaman is allmost useless on a submarine, It will only benefit your planesman by a little if that even does work.. It wont effect your Sonar or reload speed at all because it is all capped at that lvl. Needed it to reach 900SD must be a joke. Any engy or rep will give much better result

So yes you use ss5 crew ( not in lvl but in amount of sailors) It like running a BB5 with 3 slots not used.

Originally Posted by Ultra_Dog

Now if you are new to subs, then you will probably not have a fully developed high-level crew for your SS5, so when you hit L105, you'll probably jump to the Type XXI and think you got a better ship...

I use 110/115 crew on my KM sub. Engys are 115.

Like I said try it with 5 engy's, Im happy to lend you 2.

PM me on dubbelfrisss when your online.

 

 

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 06. 2013 11:41


Ultra_Dog

I did a few tests yesterday between the two subs. You decide the priorities.


Things that are better with Type XXI:

Torpedoes -
Faster (55/63).  Low speed is equal to Type IX high speed. High Speed = SN torps.
Range - Measured 10 and 8 clicks with Type XXI; Measured 8 and 6 clicks with Type IX.
Quantity - 56 vs 46 

Air Supply - Type XXI has about 10 secs of air more than Type IX.  
Support Slots - 7 vs 5
Displacement - 27XXX vs 22XXX   

Things that are the same:

Torpedoes - Same HE output
Air Recharge about the same at 1 minute 

Things that better on Type IX:

Torpedo Reload Speed: About 1 sec quicker on Type IX
Rear Torpedo tubes: - Type XXI = 0 Type IX = 2
Deck Gun: Type XXI =0, Type IX = 1  
Turning Rate - Slightly better for Type IX.
Armor - Type IX can carry more armor than Type XXI with full crew.   

Certainly the Type XXI has some advantages; and when deftly employed can handle most encounters with little problem.   

But I still maintain that the most feared ASW sub in the game is the Type IX.   The rear tubes are the deal breaker, regardless of the other advantages the Type XXI brings, once the Type IX gets behind you..(and it will), your game is over.  
      


              
      

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 07. 2013 02:34


ruza3cz

Originally Posted by Ultra_Dog

I did a few tests yesterday between the two subs. You decide the priorities.


Things that are better with Type XXI:

Torpedoes -
Faster (55/63).  Low speed is equal to Type IX high speed. High Speed = SN torps.
Range - Measured 10 and 8 clicks with Type XXI; Measured 8 and 6 clicks with Type IX.
Quantity - 56 vs 46 

Air Supply - Type XXI has about 10 secs of air more than Type IX.  
Support Slots - 7 vs 5
Displacement - 27XXX vs 22XXX   

Things that are the same:

Torpedoes - Same HE output
Air Recharge about the same at 1 minute 

Things that better on Type IX:

Torpedo Reload Speed: About 1 sec quicker on Type IX
Rear Torpedo tubes: - Type XXI = 0 Type IX = 2
Deck Gun: Type XXI =0, Type IX = 1  
Turning Rate - Slightly better for Type IX.
Armor - Type IX can carry more armor than Type XXI with full crew.   

Certainly the Type XXI has some advantages; and when deftly employed can handle most encounters with little problem.   

But I still maintain that the most feared ASW sub in the game is the Type IX.   The rear tubes are the deal breaker, regardless of the other advantages the Type XXI brings, once the Type IX gets behind you..(and it will), your game is over.  
      
           
      

To armor I thing that IX is a bit overspaced, XXI has stadart UK ss Space that you thing a bit craped inside in. Try some IJN sub and found all KM sub OK.

Rear torpedos is a bit question, on R-type I have rear torpedo man with 20vets no rest sailor and have 2 lavos on rear torpedo and a lot of time this 4 torpedos are only which left on deck.  NAd turn rate I thing there is small diferent betveen R and XXI.

I fear much more XXI becase 6forvard proxy hispeed torpedos. (Dont forgot you slow seting is same fast as more nation have fast seting).

 

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 07. 2013 02:57


Kriegsmarin

After some testing i can say that i am very happy with new km ss6 and is very good match againt other new ss with many tubes

Positive things
- Size
- Turn force
- 6front tubes new for us km ss users and i like it very much
- Torpedo speed&range 
- With no rear torps other ss players dont run all over the field , problem is whean 2km ss come behined each other than its starting endless dance
- OH time with 5eng is amazing i go almost 6min in OH

Negative things
- Slower crit dive time (smaller sub like XXI should crit dive faster than km ss5 IX model and we get slower CD time than km ss5 that suck)
- No rear tube make asw behined you in great position to stop you
- I will be more happy if more historic specs are on theat sub especialy faster underwater than on surface exapmle
- lose much more DP in crit dive i dont like it very much

Nf did good job in balancing with other nation subs with tons of tubes 

I will say ideal crew for km ss6 for GB/HA/FW will be sonar,plansman and 5x eng , and for SS war i will take sonar,plansman,repair and 4xeng

 

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 07. 2013 03:07


Kriegsmarin

Originally Posted by Ultra_Dog

Ultra you nead to train some new crew for new km ss to use it on full potentional

OH time is very importent for SS , more speed = more miles under water so its like you have more air 
Will not help you for ss duels before you reach ships but whean you chasing ships OH is most important thing on SS

Maybe start KM BB than on 100lvl you will have all crew you nead for your new ss6 . I did it that way for ss5 and now i have for new ss all 5eng that i nead BTW now all 120lvl EBVE :)

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 07. 2013 04:05


Kriegsmarin

Originally Posted by ruza3cz

Originally Posted by Kriegsmarin

 

And also in 1943 and after so many loses come from inexperienced crews which was killed on first action in many % , or they didnt sunk single ship

About other things its clear to see that you turn around lot of words which zutok say
You just trolling around zutok didnt say km subs must be uber , zutok say its facts about agility in other words if you have small sub and low number of tubes your submarine turns great 
Km have more adventages and you say
"But true is that typ VII and IX heve only one parameter excepional and this was submerged depth" Only lol do you know what is underwater pressure , if some sub go like uboat 250m and allied 100m can you emagine how much stronger the hull of that uboat is , seams you cant

Dont have time for you 2 trols alwayes same 2 ID trolling and lieing about history

Bye trols 

HI Kriegmarin (also known as a KriegLama),

Ma by you dont understand world "exceptional" then I try to explain as as 13years old child. Exceptional is sothing wonderful or much better then the others have. As you said in term of submergance I used to compare somthing which was 2,5 times more then rest world have. Please try ro remember THAT KM and RM  DONT have enought merchmant ship or war ship that can be potencionaly sunk by UK sub capitans, that say to KM was better on basic compare of tonage lost is too easy siplification.

I hope that you understand me.



lol troll can someone ban this guy from forum , why than RM Subs didnt have any succes or japanese? Answer is Commander for ijn case they didnt have sucess becouse they thinked ss is for defence porporse(high command fail) they also had worst asw so US make adventage of it(and copy km from atlanttic to attack ijn) but whean us come in atlantic they withdrew all subs from there , german asw was also best so allied ss could not come near , most problems face afrika korps with supplies bcs many escorts was incompetent italians

You say german uboat comanders dont have skill sure they had just a lot ships to sink  
Stop lie and learn history and here is one of many uboot action and you say he didnt have skill lol he hit in same hole to sink that big ship , comander of u99 also invented best anti conwoy tactic 
He sunk in 127dayes at sea in U-99 VIIB 39ships sunk 246,794t 5ships damaged 37,965t All in GRT  

At 21.40 hours on 3 Nov, 1940, U-99 torpedoed the unescorted Casanare west of Bloody Foreland. Her distress messages brought the armed merchant cruisers HMS Laurentic (F 51) (Capt E.P. Vivian, Rtd, RN) and HMS Patroclus (Capt G.C. Wynter, Rtd, RN) to the scene and the U-boat began a dramatic battle at 22.50 hours when the first torpedo struck the engine room of HMS Laurentic (F 51) from a distance of 1500 metres. At 23.28 hours, a second torpedo hit the vessel, but did not explode. A third torpedo was fired at 23.37 hours from a distance of 250 metres into the hole opened by the first torpedo, at this time the lookouts spotted the U-boat on the surface and Kretschmer had a hard time in evading the gunfire.
In the meantime, HMS Patroclus began picking up survivors instead of participating in the fight against the U-boat and her lookouts did not see U-99 only 300 metres away. A first torpedo struck the ship at 00.02 hours, a second at 00.22 hours and a third at 00.44 hours. 14 minutes later, the U-boat opened fire with the deck gun and hit with two of the four fired rounds, before Kretschmer had again to evade the gunfire and hit her with a fourth torpedo at 01.18 hours.
After that, U-99 searched for the Casanare to give the crew time for reloading the torpedo tubes, but only found two lifeboats at her position and questioned the survivors, the vessel had foundered in the meantime. At 02.39 hours, a Sunderland flying boat suddenly appeared over the U-boat, which had to dive, but no bombs were dropped. At 04.04 hours, the U-boat surfaced after reloading the torpedoes, went back to the auxiliary cruisers at high speed and fired at 04.53 hours a coup de grâce from a distance of 250 metres at HMS Laurentic (F 51). The torpedo struck the stern and ignited the depth charges stored there, causing the ship to sink by the stern within minutes. Two officers and 47 ratings were lost.
Around this time a destroyer was spotted and Kretschmer had to sink HMS Patroclus in a short time. A fifth torpedo at 05.16 hours had no significant effect, but the sixth torpedo at 05.25 hours broke the ship in two, the stern capsized and the bow sank slowly. The commander, six officers and 49 ratings were lost. After that, U-99 was attacked by HMS Hesperus (H 57) (LtCdr D.G.F.W. MacIntyre, RN), but the destroyer soon left the U-boat to pick up the commander, 51 officers and 316 ratings from HMS Laurentic (F 51). 33 officers and 330 ratings from HMS Patroclus were picked up by HMS Beagle (H 30) (LtCdr R.H. Wright, RN) and landed at Greenock. 

i can PM you endless numbers of skill actions by geramn uboat force how many events you nead 30 50 100? just tell and i will show you
Learn history than talk about history with ww2 uboat specialist 

  • Re : KM Type XXI

    08. 08. 2013 06:38


ruza3cz

Originally Posted by Kriegsmarin

lol troll can someone ban this guy from forum , why than RM Subs didnt have any succes or japanese? Answer is Commander for ijn case they didnt have sucess becouse they thinked ss is for defence porporse(high command fail) they also had worst asw so US make adventage of it(and copy km from atlanttic to attack ijn) but whean us come in atlantic they withdrew all subs from there , german asw was also best so allied ss could not come near , most problems face afrika korps with supplies bcs many escorts was incompetent italians

You say german uboat comanders dont have skill sure they had just a lot ships to sink  
Stop lie and learn history and here is one of many uboot action and you say he didnt have skill lol he hit in same hole to sink that big ship , comander of u99 also invented best anti conwoy tactic 
He sunk in 127dayes at sea in U-99 VIIB 39ships sunk 246,794t 5ships damaged 37,965t All in GRT  

Please read firs what i wrote and Dont put on my keybord the words which I dont write.

 

Can you copy and paste part text where I wrote thas KM SS Commanders was skillles and coward.

The answer why RM SS was less succesfull is more coplicate then one world Command. The IJN SS doctrine make more primary to attack warships then mechmantships, the IJN ASW was niot weak becase of low skilled capitans but from bad tactics and no development of ASW tactic.

It is for me new that KM have best ASW (I thing it it Lie or you beleve to propaganda taht all gemany tings (SS, BB, Fighters, Tanks, Engines ....) was best but they lost to superior numbers). I thing thas retreat or nonasigment of US subs on antalntic was much siplier. The UK have enoght subs to counter AXIS and US need all they subs to its own unrestricted submarine varfare against IJN. (Or you cen see it more siplier the risk of sunk uselless 1000 tons germany mercmant sip (Iportnt from german wiev) vas much greater then sinking IJN merchmant ship). The KM ASW was only prewar stadart thay dont developed HH, Squid, HF/DF, cm radar for ASW, ASW airplanes with radar on board and what is most iportnat coopeation betveen ASW ships and planes. There was cold relaionship betveen Lufftvafe and Kriegsmarine. But the more importnat was KM have only costal trade lines wich low number of ships becase Gemany is (to today) continental econamy. (In contrast to UK and Japan which both are ocean economies with great need on mechmant ships).

Pleas i dot lie Im only speaking that grat number sunken ship doe not mean great skill. It depends also on defence and quatitit of potencial targets. But you still tataly overlooked this. Look how much ship was lost per operation submanine dirning war and how many ASW veasesls was available to defend merchmant ship, and you found that bes ratio was at the end od 1940 durig to end 1941, after that KM swich from ividuals to mass produce sub capitans. The probelm od suply to afrca copse is oso Germany dont have enoght merchmant ships and war ship to supply the must cooperate with RM. (But forgot sometimes tell iportant thing to RM for exaple the existence of UK radar).

 

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