"Actually no, the reason the Alsace had high submergence and low DP is because it
was an exact copy of the korean server Alsace. Just like it's bombers and fighters
and well everything."

>>> Yes, and then it needs to be brought in line with our BB6's. Our values are different.

I would love to do the BB5's now. But we can't do all of them. Also, with regards to L2, it
has average firepower for its tier (Equal with SY/Sovietsky100, below Alsace, Sovietsky
110's, Montana, and above H44). L2 also has the worst DP of the original 5 nations, no
decent AA battery, goes 39 knots with little to no belt/bulge.

Sure you can armour it, but going 35 when any ships that are "weak" to armour go 39 or
more (39 being H44 with far longer range, 42 being Alsace with far more damage and its
easy enough to switch to AP against a 35 knot ship). Armoured L2 isn't a better setup
than the 3 gun version imo.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Who decides that, You? Its not a national "TRAIT" but a matter of max displacement
of a ship and as you all know there is exact calculation formula for finding out a
ship's APHC. So every ship of different nations submergence(survivalability) varies
depending on what maxium DP it has.
I see as a loyal British citizen, you want your country's ships to be best :)"

>>> Going to accuse me of bias? I have every single BB line, I am not here to make one
ship the strongest. If any ship fits my playstyle, it is MN. I've had many posts where I
have told people my crews. I know exactly what stat deals with the APHC, the national
traits are what SDE have done in patches on other ships. MN has a hitbox and ship size
advantage, as well as speed. It also has INSANE salvo damage, fantastic AA as well as the
spread buff for the main guns it has. I agree that the L2 needs a nerf of some kind, but
the fact of the matter is, there are issues with doing that, pertaining to the Montana.

Last time I checked, this was an MN/SN patch. On top of that, most of the APHC values
were changed from their originals accidentally in previous patches, so many values are off
from what they should be.

TLDR, to summarize.

Yes, what we're doing is paradoxal and inconherent. This game is full of it, and no
one ever died of it.

Like I said, we fix alsace now, or wait until the bb5 patch and fix the monty, alsace,
L2.

@motherrussia
Silly russia, you<re getting in bad mood ;)

Then propose your suggestion. Because frankly, what you were writing are all
complaining
and making as if the whole world is going to end.

What you brought are all bunch of old news. SDE never leak sort of formula, then
you are
right that SDE is lying to their player base. But then what's your point? your math
can be
wrong or can be good, so does mine.

It<s like saying that L2 is overpowered and you make it as a news on the paper.
Which is
pointless whine. If we knew how to fix these thing long time ago, we would have
done it.
You're hassling us, as if we do not see the problem.

We see it. No need to make a big story on it.

Regarding the BB5 submergence, go ask SDE, they were the one that patch the ship
in the
game. We know lot of time, they idiotic apply the "real life " displacement or some
sort
or similarity.


I am just here for bugg testing and reporting what is not normal. Here's the story,
either
Alsace, L2 is messed up, either H44,monty,SY are messed up, or all ship are messed
up. But
then that will comes to your point, as many of us know the game is broken from A to
Z, in
which we know.


I am not the navyfield programmer.


But to answer your question, we're fixing both thing at once both unrelated. It's not
because we buff the DP, that we will necessarily nerf the submergence.

It's not because we give a ship more submergence, that we will necessarily nerf in
Durability.

In this bb5 case, we're fixing both at once, because it is far more complexe than you
think.
Also, since you are one of the few people who realize it. Welcome to BrokenField.
Where few people here know what's going on.

We can also, do a buff in both, nerf and buff, nerf and nerf, nerf and buff, all the
combo you want.

And yea, you realize it. All stuff in this game are broken.


@silver, submergence is not related to range. More than the size of hitbox, real life
ship
size or whatever you want it. It sounds idiotic, but that's how it works.

Ask why AD has the longest range PBB, but can take much more hit than any ship.

Pproject2 which has longest bb1 range along with scharnhorst but have one of the
lowest.

Renown isn't the worse range bb1, yet a KM bb1 takes more hit than it?
The whole game is messed up.

Etc....
You knew what happen with the pre nerf SS, which were completely messed up.

SylverXI : thats's one of my point that I havent commned on this thread. Good work.


So such generalization cant be made at this point unless every single ship is
comletely and flawlessly balanced -which is impossible.

Either we fix alsace later. Or right now, and fix monty later.
But then, we will expect some people start QQing "OMG my monty get shaft" if we
we're to
fix now.

Actually, I calculated the APHC for bb5s and conrasted it to your chart data and saw
all the APHC for BB5s are either negligibly or sort of messed up except H44(full
4500) from what it should be.(Is this because of the buff in durability and nerf in
submergence that I talked about above? If that is the case?)So maybe fix all but
h44?

And if you are gonna say that my calculation is wrong, then you are telling me that
SDE is wrong and that it lied to everyone in NFKR.

"MN is meant to have below average submergence. It isn't meant to have better
submergence than US. Thus, it should get a nerf."

"MN have small ship size, thus poor survivability

-----(small? Rich, Alsace, Carrots are small? Again this cannot be generalized)

IJN is meant to have worst survivability
UK is meant to have the best survivability
US is meant to have average survivability
KM being poor survivability (Due to long range)"

astonishing generalizatoin.

Who decides that, You? Its not a national "TRAIT" but a matter of max displacement
of a ship and as you all know there is exact calculation formula for finding out a
ship's APHC. So every ship of different nations submergence(survivalability) varies
depending on
what maxium DP it has.
I see as a loyal British citizen, you want your country's ships to be best :)

Pff, like I said, what the heck is the DP you all are referring to? Max. DP or the 28550
DP?
If you refer to the 28550 and calling it a buff, thats just BS. Oh wait, so I see all the
BB5s' DP(durabability) except alsace have been increased from that of original ones
from Korean server. So when they were increased, they got their submergence
nerfed as well just like this case? In that case, this submergence nerfing makes
sense. But tell me now?

And if referring to Max. DP? Whats the reasoanble justificatin of increasing it? I dont
feel any need for this kinda "buff" for nerfring submergence when I play it?

The problem is, US Montana is a paper boat, 98% of taking a full salvo while Alsace take
89% only.

Either we fix alsace later. Or right now, and fix monty later.
But then, we will expect some people start QQing "OMG my monty get shaft" if we we're to
fix now.

Actually no, the reason the Alsace had high submergence and low DP is because it
was an exact copy of the korean server Alsace. Just like it's bombers and fighters
and well everything.

The submergence was meant to be that way. Seems logical, low range ships tend to
have lower displacement.

For a BB that is obligated to stand back and wait for a right moment to attack, it
need to be able to take a hit when it decides to move in.

L2 should be brought in and compared. we are balancing a BB5 here, thus all BB5 in
the game are valid refrences for the change in submergence value of the Alsace.

The L2 has 2nd best range. In other words, it can just slingshot all day without
receiving a single hit. When it does get a hit, it won't even feel it and even if he does,
it can simply move out of range and use awesome repair rate to get back in the
battle fast. Not to mention you can armor the darn thing. Not to mention it's above
average firepower. All of this because of it's AA lack range so yeah sure it's
submergence value is ok.

Getting back on the Alsace, it has worse range and it's ship size is not significantly
smaller to the other BB5. MN is a rushing nation just like UK, and should have an
average submergence instead of a high one like UK. Not the lowest with IJN and KM.

I say somewhere near US.

I played the MN BB's before they were even on the main server.

I have BB crews for every BB line.

MN is meant to have below average submergence. It isn't meant to have better
submergence than US. Thus, it should get a nerf.

Its pretty damn simple.

This is a MN/SN patch. Stop bringing in the L2. We know it is out of place. But it is a
complicated issue.

The whole reason the Alsace had good submergence in the first place was due to the low
DP. You can't have good submergence, more DP AND the smallest hitbox.

And you don't make a ship overpowered just because it has been underpowered in the
past or that other ships in the line is underpowered.