Sirius A hit the nail on the head! The simple fact is SU dbs need a little buff above the
value of IJN or IJN needs a little nerf just below the SU T2's.

(1) As far as MN goes, they are supposed to be middle of the road for TB/DB, so joint
third with KM t2 DB's (SU > IJN > MN=KM) is more than acceptable. We all know the Korean
stats made them far more powerful than intended and simply because so many players have
exploited this shouldn't be an excuse for not bringing them into line with the core nations.

MN CV Changes:

Bomber Damage.

TB1: 6378 -> 5315
TB2: 9566 -> 7972
DB1: 2880 -> 2504
DB2: 3168 -> 2755 (KM is 2819)


(2) >> He is also right in that the fuel capacity of the MN is massive compared to other
nations. The stats he has posted are +/- 10 the same for every other nation thus bringing
them into line again with the core nations!

Bomber Gas.

TB1: 299 > 150
TB2: 273 > 160
DB1: 259 > 150
DB2: 249 > 155

(3) Again the MN T3 fighters are far too fast, being on par with T4's - this speed nerf
brings them in line with the other core nations. IJN T3 is 640 so MN is slightly slower,
just how the MN T4 is slightly slower than IJN/US. However he is also correct in saying
after MN gets balanced CV T4 fighters as a whole need relooking into since they are out of
sync with national traits and like for like % comparisons with Korea.

Fighter's.

D.520 Speed 655 > 635.
(Fighter's need to be reworked as a whole)


(4) These are self explanatory, the PCV has been a long time comming in its reduction to
11 launch, otherwise whats the point in CV6. Also 14000 is the same plane space for all
CV6's so the Liberte should be no different. Also as a last point, the Joffre is a CV4
however its current plane space is above the Essex and Kaga28 (8200). Don't forget the KM
Graf Zeppelin 2 has only 7400 place space for a lvl 80 cv4, i dont see how 7700 place
space for the Joffre is that bad, if anything it places it in the middle.

CV's.
Joffre Turning Speed 33 > 25
Joffre Planespace 8700 > 7700
Arromanches Turning Speed 35 > 23
Daladier Plane Launch 12 > 11
Liberte Planespace 14280 > 14000


(5) I would like to add, submergence values for all MN capital ships are still higher than
their core nation counterparts, the same goes for Soviets.


@ Willg210

MN was always designed to be middle of the road in Korea, and so it was,
except for us here in NFNA it took it from average to exceptional.

So long as MN DB damage remains competitive with KM or maybe a nerfed IJN (nerfed below
SU, or buffed SU over IJN) I dont see a problem. UK is supposed to have highest TB damage
so they needa TB dmg nerf to below that of UK.

The fighters work just fine as they are for now, since we are patching MN first, fighters
second, that being said MN T3 have too much speed hence the reduction.

US - Good FP, Average DB/TB
IJN - Good DB, Average FP/TB <--- Fighters should be average, but with T4 patch they are
really really good.
UK - Good TB, Average FP, Bad DB
KM - Good FP, Average DB, Bad TB
SN - Good DB, Average FP, Bad TB
MN - Average DB/TB/FP


(6) Also lets not lose sight here, the Soviets are not finished. One example is bomber
load times for soviets are still at pre-cv patch levels. ie 12/13sec load times instead of
8/9 for everyone else. But this kind of information can go in a soviet thread.

Fara.

We need separate threads for each subject...

""Then would you be so kind as it enlighten me why MN DB's shouldn't be middle of the
pack? Is it because of all the people that leveled up DB Whores knowing that MN was
never balanced to begin with? "

Exactly why. He has a DB only MN crew."

I also have US/IJN CV6,UKCV5 and shortly an SN CV. So thats beside the point. The point
being, I don't want too see all CVs being MN or no CVs being MN. What is MNs advantage
going to be?

US - Good FP
UK - Good TB
IJN - Good DB
KM - Good FP
SN - Good DB
MN - ???

Clearly you do not understand game balance.

Maybe an unpopular idea, but, how about not changing anything, and keeping the
game where it is... If you buff and nerf things to be equivalent to every other ship,
then it really doesnt matter anymore which line you go through, except for KM, which
has been in trouble for a long time. The way they are now, you have to actually use
this thing called skill... I know, it's a hard concept to grasp for a lot of people, but its
possible... My H44 has taken monty's down, and SYs and L2s, even the new
Alsace's, however weak KM truly is... My point is, you get what youre dealt... You
can't just complain because people are beating you down because they are using
their nations advantages against you... That's how this game was originally setup,
DEAL with it, and find another way to win... Use that "skill" of yours, and sink them...
You wanna nerf MN DBs... USE AA... end of point.

Its not the fighters that arnt balanced. T1 and 2 arnt quite right anymore but there is
nothing wrong with T3 balance. For the record I do not mind how the balance of fuel and
durability between tiers was shifted and I think they had a good idea going with that.
Messing with the pilots is what screwed everything up.

If you look at the T3 fighter planes of the original nations the reflect their nations
distinct play style.

MN BB1 - decrease (worsen) spread, currently dominates blitz games

MN BB2,3 - Increase the damage they take, whether it be submergence, HE/AP
defense, whatever it is. 3500 damage from a 16" shell is not right. They are small
enough already, bring the damage they recieve in line with other BB2/3.

MN BB4 - Perhaps range/damage/ or DP buff, seems a bit weak for a 4.

MN BB5 - Knock down OH to 40 knts to bring it in line with the Monty. (Since it has
the same firepower)

"Fighters as a whole need to be looked at since they ignore national traits, as do T5
scouts."

Fixed.

T4s as a whole need to be looked at since they ignore national traits, as do T5 scouts.
IMO this needs to be done independently of the MN balance and until then MN T4 fighters
should be left untouched.

hopefully changes to current nations can be made. just because MN and SN need
balancing doesent mean the others do too *cough* USN T4's *cough*