My idea....Give BB/CV/CA, anything that is expected to have AA, give it a ASW slot(s)
that do NOT affect the existing AA slots. My biggest problem is not having something
to fight back with in something like a H44 or SY.
When encountering a sub:
Amagi without HH=Dead
H44 without HH=Dead
QV without HH=Dead
SY without HH=Dead
L2 without HH=Dead
Monty without HH=Dead

Theres some type of pattern :O


My suggestion: 2-4 Extra slots(turret slots) used for ASW only. Give ALL BB5 14
support slots. The 14th in this case would control the ASW turrets. So, more then
two birds with one stone, stop the noobs complaining about subs, the 14th support
slots no one but UK has, and of course subs.
oh, yea, im one of the noobs who hates subs but i think this would make everyone
who isnt in a sub happy

Summary!!!...
If we want anything done about SS's being nerfed some, we need to let them know what we
are for, and what we are against..
So..
1. Airplanes having the ability to carry depth charges?
2. Battery instead of air tank?
3. More dive time, but slower?
4. Less dive time, but refills faster?
5. Slower (on surface and submerged)?
6. HE does more damage?
7. ASW (DC's not having as big of a blast radius/HH not being a killer when they don't
even touch the sub)?
8. Lower cap for SD for a sub?
9. Critical dive damage nerf?

To help aid this just copy and paste the list, and put either yes, or no after it, with a
BRIEF explanation why not, if you chose no.

My opinion:

1. Airplanes having the ability to carry depth charges? Definitely

2. Battery instead of air tank? Not if they don't restrict it's speed on the surface,
because you could exploit it by getting almost to their side at 40 kph and be invisible
til the game ends.

3. More dive time, but slower? Possibly, depending on how slow, and how much longer.

4. Less dive time, but refills faster? I wouldn't mind it.

5. Slower (on surface and submerged)? Depending on how much slower.

6. HE does more damage? Yes, but make the shells do the damage that it says they do, not
have 1 shell hit you and it say "867" and you lose 3k dp.

7. ASW (DC's not having as big of a blast radius/HH not being a killer when they don't
even touch the sub)? DC's need to be instant kill if they are right on top of them, but
they shouldn't do a lot of damage when they aren't right next to it. HH should not do any
damage unless they hit the sub, because that is what they were, a contact detonation
device. Noobs in DD's with PHH get 2 of them on you and like 50 spread out next to you,
and it somehow kills you.

8. Lower cap for SD for a sub? Yes, there should be no way that i can fire all 4 of my
torps into a sub and get 25k attack and him only have no SD left. 50k attack off an SS4 is
ridiculous.

9.Critical dive damage nerf? Yes, or perhaps after a certain amount of DP you shouldn't be
able to critical dive. Like there is a point of air in which you can't critical dive, so
how about your DP?
Thanks,
Scmoo472
*Edit/PS: If there were any ideas i forgot, or scanned over and didn't add, add them in
your post and i will edit this one.

NZRogue I know u ask for more solid things but;

In WW2 main allied strategy for ASW was by aircraft. So my suggestion:

Let Scout Planes of BBs drop depth charges like mines.

So machine guns on subs will also have a meaning maybe.

Subs are asymmetric ships. They can be killed by all lvls and can kill all lvls and i like
the damage they can deal or that can be dealt to them is pretty balanced.

@ Megadone
Lol, it works with all BB6, (particularly IJN), I know this because I have talked with
people, tested it as well, Besides if you really want to avoid dieing quickly to subs,
don't run from them, it makes it easier to kill you becuase their torps if they dud and
don't blow up upon impact, they explode underneath you. If BB players would play
subs more often, I bet you that they would die much, much less from subs because
they could anticipate their next move and beable to avoid it/dodge it. I know that I
have a harder time killing the BB players that play subs as well. SS players get it
easy because you make it easy for us. Such as the CV's that don't move from their
spawn, the BB's that try to pop a smoke, giving us 5-6 seconds of free air intake,
BB's that run away and give us optimal torp launching conditions...
Seriously, if you actually try to dodge a sub, you will fail, I haven't met any BB
players (yet) who have done things to avoid me, but yet just stay in the area that
they know I am heading for and its basically free food,

All I can say, is that for people using BB's who won't stop complaining about no
ASW. For the last week I have been using an Emden, or Z99 with HedgeHogs on it.
900SD subs are a joke, they die in 2 volleys if I remember hearing correctly on the
military channel. "No sub has been able to survive a full volley from HH launchers" Fix
it please... Simulation games should be at least partly real. SS's were the 3rd most
fragile ship in WW1/2, (only behind Frigates, and convoy ships).
Airtime should be increased, Damage on surface and under water should be added,
their is no way they should beable to take as much as they do. 900SD should be the
point that you can survive an HH volley and be crippled. not still in the green still
OHing for another 5 minutes....

Battery option... lol no... i fear that you will beable to exploit this so much, such as
nothing has been mentioned about surface speed with the battery. If you could still
go 40, than you could get 1/2 way across the map before diving, than you would be
invisible until the end of the game. lol, thats totaly fair right?


@ silver1
that one made me laugh for about 10 minutes...
I say no, because than you will need places for ships to refuel, and what about
when they got there? would they be invincible if they were there, because than all
you would have to do is get 100k attack, and run there and sit there and never die..
or be the last alive and just sit there, so it will end because of time and you won't
die and lose your exp bonus for staying alive.....

I suggestion that we put a sub base somewhere on every map for ss to reload on
ammo and more air

@Scmoo472

wich BB6 did you use to test this? cuz I whana check this my self :)


cheers
Megadone

@megadone,
even 255 buldge(max) 2-3 salvos from IJN T4 is gona sink you in a BB6.
add .8-1.2 belt and you will beable to take those and than point and laugh at him. (which
i already do :P) 3 salvo's from IJN T4=24 torps, being that it only holds like 34? he has
6/4 salvo's left. lol he can't kill a BB5 that is properly armored. ijn T4 is totaly
flawed with it.

Xtremo wrote:

*1_ no comment.
2_ What's the deal with that? You can have Bulge, and in a "fair" 1on1 battle, a sub
will mostly have a hughe advantage to sink any BB. The fact is, that now, an SS to
get there with enough Air left, is because the other team BBs didn't make a good job
forcing him to submerge. This is the kind of argue that takes the BB to the god tier,
noone then should be able to sink a BB? You want to nerf more SS? What's the deal
with an IJN SS4 sinking any BB5 out there? You know how ofthen that happens? If
the team sucks, the SS skipper is good, and noone cares about the Escorts or
noobish players to stay back and do their job, then, don't nerf the subs, make the
BBs to fly by so you can keep playing in untouchable.
3_ no comments, we already stated that ASW and also SS need a rework.
4_ Tellme an L2 or QV that gets sunk by an SS4 and you have a team doing it
wrong. As the SS needs external scouting to get there, the QV, L2 or whatever
needs a proper cover up, if you keep thinking on the SS/BB box, you will allways get
it wrong. So, subs are not hunters? What are they? What are they supposed to do?
Lie on the bottom and...? Kill FFs? So you can see them with uber range while safely
far away shoot at them?
5_ Well, it's kind of the point of an SS to remain invisible isn't it? You want to see it
farther? My god, just make the subs unable to dive.

The whole thread is almost pointless, 90% are comments like yours, to nerf subs,
actually there are 5 good suggestions top that could be implemented on the current
engine without any major rework.*
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2.) - 4.)
IMO the fact that a lvl 77-78 ship can sink an end game ship within 20s is normal for
you? what game are you playing? moonbridge? seriuslly...

fact is...when you can score 130k attack in a T2 sub...EASY...simplly means
something is not right, PERIOD.

if ppl would think as you do....Vanny would still be an OPed BB3 instead of
underpowered BB4....but hey...as long as you see fit.

FYI Subs where/are and allways will be Sillent Killers and NEVER a Hunter...learn the
diference...simple as that.

5.) missed the point ther diden't ya?...rea dit agine

6.) I'll acctually call you on that...since I'm 99% sure you diden't read the whole
thread, nor do you know what a disscusion is...wich incloudes pro's and cons...if ther
are to many pro's means somethign needs nerf....AKA SUBS.

as with last ASW buff and Plainsman buff...it's obiouse SDE is pleased with
subs...thus non of *good* suggestions are ever gona get implemenet..

cheers
Megadone

NERF critical dive dmg by 70%.

@ Megadone:
"1 - check your fact's and stop missleading ppl
2 - eaven 255 buldge(max) 2-3 salvos from IJN T4 is gona sink you in a BB6. So your
comment put boldge on is plain dumb(FM's apperantlly alow this word)
3 - acctually good point..however ASW is all so OPed and needs a nerf.
4 - 40 knots for a SUB is ridiculess THER NOT HUNTERS, PERIOD. And NO not all BB5's
can go over 40 knots... L2 is caped at 39...QV is caped at 40...ect...
5 - the sonar range on FF is to small for beeing of TO MUCH help to a BB...since a T4
sub is allready in range of torps when FF sonar kicks in...

eatherway

read whole thread.....subs DO need a huge nerf....and ther are some wonderfull
ideas...to acctually make subs fun this to play...instead of.... FFFFFF, SPACE, FFFFF,
SPACE, surface die.....

cheers
Megadone "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1_ no comment.
2_ What's the deal with that? You can have Bulge, and in a "fair" 1on1 battle, a sub
will mostly have a hughe advantage to sink any BB. The fact is, that now, an SS to
get there with enough Air left, is because the other team BBs didn't make a good job
forcing him to submerge. This is the kind of argue that takes the BB to the god tier,
noone then should be able to sink a BB? You want to nerf more SS? What's the deal
with an IJN SS4 sinking any BB5 out there? You know how ofthen that happens? If
the team sucks, the SS skipper is good, and noone cares about the Escorts or
noobish players to stay back and do their job, then, don't nerf the subs, make the
BBs to fly by so you can keep playing in untouchable.
3_ no comments, we already stated that ASW and also SS need a rework.
4_ Tellme an L2 or QV that gets sunk by an SS4 and you have a team doing it wrong.
As the SS needs external scouting to get there, the QV, L2 or whatever needs a
proper cover up, if you keep thinking on the SS/BB box, you will allways get it wrong.
So, subs are not hunters? What are they? What are they supposed to do? Lie on the
bottom and...? Kill FFs? So you can see them with uber range while safely far away
shoot at them?
5_ Well, it's kind of the point of an SS to remain invisible isn't it? You want to see it
farther? My god, just make the subs unable to dive.

The whole thread is almost pointless, 90% are comments like yours, to nerf subs,
actually there are 5 good suggestions top that could be implemented on the current
engine without any major rework.