You're right about the KM DBs, my mistake.

The numbers are without vets, they're 100% experts, I did mention that on the last line before all the examples I provided. Wether they're 650 men or 547, they're all experts, no vets, no recruits. But I only used experts because recruits are worth nothing and 100% veterans is an unreasonable value to use for an example.

If you apply 100 vets to either late classed or properly timed examples, the percentage will close as 100 vets makes up more of a properly classed pilot than a late classed. But with 100 each for example, IJN DBs are still 2.2% better late classed than properly classed.

You should rephrase that as unclassed rather then late classed. I assume you are doing suqad leader v ace right? The reults of things will be different depending on how far you want to push the vets. Ace is best unless you want to go crazy and vetcap, then you will be better off with first class. Or maybe its like 220+ vets but either way. There is a situation where squad leader is best too, maybe unboosted?

Actually all this work has been done.

See the information here:

http://www.opennavyfield.com/smf/index.php?topic=440.0

I refer to it as late classed because you can class them to the highest promotion once they hit 120 and because the method of using a lower promotion also applies to AA gunners, so I tend to use the term delayed or late classed and unclassed interchangeably.

I'm not doing squad leader vs ace, I'm doing basic promotion vs full promotion.

Neutral sailors, special forces, rookies pilots and all basic pilot classes increase their pilot count by 5 recruits every level. Ace pilots gain only 4, squad leaders gain only 3.

This trade of manpower for more growth is not beneficial. I will use a lvl 119 pilot below as an example. I have to consider that every man that makes up a sailor is an expert, despite this likely not being the case.

base fighter, +13, base manpower, 50 men

neutral sailor lvl 1-12, 12 levels of 5 men = +60 men, total 110

classed as US, classed as special forces, fighter ability 11+13 = 24, lvl 12-25, 13 levels of 5 men = 65 men, total 175

classed as rookie pilot, no change in growth, lvl 25-40, 15 levels of 5 men = 75 men, total 250

classed as fighter pilot, fighter ability 4+24 = 28.

So, we have our lvl 40 us fighter pilot with +28 fighter and 250 men.

I'm going to level him 79 levels without promoting him.

lvl 119 US fighter pilot, 645 men, +28 fighter, 3065 fighter ability total.

I can level him up once more, but I can do this three ways.

Kept as Fighter pilot and leveled to 120

Ability change by 28 x 645 current men = 18,060

Ability change by 3065+28 x 5 new recruits = 15,465

Total ability change = 33,525

Classed up to Ace Fighter Pilot, then leveled to 120

Ability change by 31 x 645 current men = 19,995

Ability change by 3065+31 x 4 new recruits = 12,384

Total ability change = 32,379

Classed up to Ace and then Sqd Leader Fighter Pilot, then leveled to 120

Ability change by 33 x 645 current men = 21,285

Ability change by 3065+33 x 3 new recruits = 9,288

Total ability change = 30,573

So, as you can see, the sqd ldr promotion increase the true ability by the least, ace pilot by the second least and the basic pilot had the biggest increase. This is because that extra growth does not make up for the fact that higher promotions provide less men.

As for the influence of vets, read my second post in this thread. Vets are not 'better' in properly classed pilots, they are necessary to not be as bad as they are otherwise.

In another simulation of a US pilot unclassed beyond Fighter Pilot to 120 and another US pilot classed properly to 120, even with the 105 less men advantage (increasing the influence of veterans), the properly classed US fighter needs 33 vets to have higher ability than the unclassed fighter.

Give the unclassed 100 and the properly classed still needs 133 to surpass the TA of the unclassed pilot. Thing is, if you're going to add 200 vets to your pilot at any point, why not just add it to the already superior unclassed pilot? Why class properly just because youre going to overvet. If someone offered you two US pilots, one with 2.4m TA and one with 2.0m TA and said you can only keep ONE and overvet it to 250 vets, which are you going to pick?

The unclassed one, because he has 2.4m TA.

Just follow the link and it will tell you everything. Each class has an advantage including squad leader depending on how far you want to push the vets.

I havent been able to since I'm not registered and am still 'waiting verification by an admin', but if there really is an advantage somehow to the higher promotions then I'll be interested to see how that works.

Its not my work so I will post the conclusions only.

Fighter:

Unboosted:

fighter is better from 0 to 115 vets and from 245 vets to 260

ace fighter is better from 115 to 236 vets

squad leader is better then fighter but never ace from 170 to 218 vets

Boosted:

fighter is better from 0 to 125 vets and from 242 vets to 260

ace is better from 125 to 236 vets

squad leader is better then fighter but never ace from 189 to 218 vets

Bombers are abit different and squad leader plays a bigger role.

Credit: superjugy

Keep in mind all this is terribly simplistic since you are assuming pilot ability is the only one worth focusing on. Theres a ton more math and planning required for true freak sailors.

The conclusions mean nothing when I don't know how his equations differ to mine.

His conclusions don't even make any sense and from what you provided I see no justification for those claims.

Fighter is better between x vets, Squad better betweeen x vets... better than what?

Unfortunately what youve quoted makes no sense to me, I'll have to read the whole post. However, I have and can still provide full working out for the conclusions that I have provided aswell as clear justification.

Promotion's only affect growth, manpower and any skills a sailor has. Since the performance of a sailor is measured only by their ability and manpower, nothing else can come into the equation, and I know precisely how to account for the varying abilities and manpower levels of different sailors and alternative ways of leveling and classing those sailors.

I think my last post with the US fighter as an example was quite clear. You can see how much ability is gained every level by each promotion of US fighter and you can see that the basic promotion gains the most. You can also see that the higher promotions gain more ability from the pure growth of ability, but gain less ability from the contributed TA of their new recruits, which results in a net LOSS of ability.

There is nothing else involved in the calculation of a sailors performance... I need to wait and see the justification for a fighter being better with between 0-125 vets AND 245-360 vets... that just makes no sense to me right now.