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  • Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 02. 2012 09:02

Recommend : 2

Benser33

When it comes to air combat, and for example 2 fighters engage each other, is it the listed ability of the pilot or the true ability that is used?

 

I'm asking because late classing fighters and bombers provides them with a greater total true ability, but classing them on time provides them greater listed ability. Late classing for greater true ability would be pointless if only the listed ability stat is used in the combat, but if the true ability stat is used then the classing of pilots is actually detrimental to their performance.

 

I'm assuming that true ability is what is compared between two pilots, but that does mean that classing pilots beyond their first promotion makes them perform worse in the long run. However, if true ability wasn't used, that would render experts and vets useless except for their contribution to AAW defense.

 

Also, while I'm at it, the components section shows UK T4s as ace fighter, I assume that means that you need the ace pilot ability to be able to use those?

 

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 11. 2012 09:33


Benser33

Originally Posted by V2CxBongRipz

Originally Posted by Benser33

Yeah, but no pilots are going to stand any chance if you delay the promotion to basic fighter/tb/db at the expense of other abilities. You'd have to delay the promotion to special forces which would severely impair their primary function. You could delay the rookie pilot promotion and just keep them as special forces until the level of the basic pilot promotions I guess, for their repair-7 and restore-7 ability.

 

You would be surprised. Theres a couple of CV crews out there with mean fighters/tbs, 900 sd, and rep cap with gunners instead of supports. But like I said it all depends on how far you want to push things.

 

And you shouldnt put too much stock in crew ability. There are ofcourse other factors besides crew when it comes to real battles.

I'm sure their aircraft get farmed by anyone with even half decent fighters, since the fighter/bomber attribute also contributes to an aircrafts defense. You can't halve your aircrafts ability for some repair and restore (restore is easy to cap and delayed till repair cap with no actual repairers? gj ruining those aircraft, that is so ridiculous Im not even going to try simulate it to see the ability the fighters and bombers could actually achieve cos I know that to try hit 35m repair with 8 aircraft would need you to severely delay their pilot promotions). And as for other factors than crew ability, ability is the name of the topic.

 

Originally Posted by torion

The same holds true with premium vs rolled sailors or how different sailors work towards total. It's highly inconvenient to find out after-the-fact that your sailors aren't as good as you thought, but at least it's transparant so you can find it out eventually and recover. I think this was probably a developer oversight that became the standard, and though I honestly believe there's no way to correct the problem without creating another (negating the already invested work of people who were in the know by reversing it) it is a little disheartening when you figure it out.

 

Convenient though that elite fighters now make the best fighters, and elite bombers now make the best bombers, no?

 

Originally Posted by torion


Edit: This is as good a place as any for my question, just to confirm in my mind what's been posted. The calculations and information put down indicates that performing -only- the first up-class (from rookie pilot to either fighter pilot or bomber) is the way to go. I'm running a KM line with classed-on-time fighters and bombers around level 100, since that's what I had almost 3 years ago when I last played. It looks like this is (relatively) the wrong way to go, as I lost quite a bit of potential in doing so. I'm not trying to min-max here, just trying to recognize if I made a bad decision in the past and should correct it now before proceeding. Much appreciated.

 

If you ever had any intention of filling your pilots with experts and applying as many vets as can physically fit onto that pilot then yes, you have lost some potential. Quite a bit of potential lost? Not really, you can still have competetive pilots, but compared to CV players who HAVE maxed their pilots, just like 99% of other CVs, you wont stand much chance of overcoming them. It's hard to explain really, yes the loss of potential is a shame but you musnt think your pilots cannot perform anymore. Players who truly do min-max their pilots to reach their perfect, maximum potential are rare and of course, aircraft quality and level are both important factors to take into account. KM is a strong fighter nation, as for correcting any bad decisions, what can you do? Add more vets, add more experts... obvious choices available to anyone, or start again, which I don't really believe is necessary.

 

Throwing out the most extreme numbers so I can to indicate the difference;

Base 13 KM, boosted, 40% vets, rest experts, lvl 120. (Best possible KM pilot configuration)

Kept as fighters from 40 (260 vets, 390 experts) = 5,122,260 ability

Classed on time (218 vets, 327 experts) = 4,683,294 ability

UK Highest possible ability (Worst of the best) = 4,593,362 ability

 

So you can see, the loss of ability is alot (450k), but even your classed on time fighters when MAXED have more ability than the best possible UK fighter ability, aswell as having a better fighter aircraft.

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 11. 2012 13:50


torion

Thanks for the response.

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 20. 2012 20:45


WebSnozz

So can someone clarify for me please, when a fighter engages a bomber, which stats affect the combat for each?

When a bomber engages a bomber?

When a scout engages a scout?

-Is it the fighter ability in all cases?

I saw a sailor guide that seemed to say that Bomber stat improved combat ability between aircraft :/  And then of course some guides that said the Aircraft ability helps a plane not get shot down as easily by other aircraft... 

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 21. 2012 00:37


EricIdle

Originally Posted by WebSnozz

So can someone clarify for me please, when a fighter engages a bomber, which stats affect the combat for each?

When a bomber engages a bomber?

When a scout engages a scout?

-Is it the fighter ability in all cases?

I saw a sailor guide that seemed to say that Bomber stat improved combat ability between aircraft :/  And then of course some guides that said the Aircraft ability helps a plane not get shot down as easily by other aircraft... 

sigh...

 

Scouts are measured in both their offense / defence ability by the stat "Aircraft"

Fighters are measured in both their offense / defence ability by the stat "Fighter"

Bombers are measured in both their offense / defence ability by the stat "Bomber"

 

Of course, always the true ability of that stat (meaning stat value multiplied by vets & experts)

Further, you need to take into account the stats of the plane used (that's why a bomber is good at bombing, but even with high offense/defence can normally not cut it against a fighter).

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 21. 2012 22:50


torion

I did my own calculations for KM:

Assuming elite on both(+13):

100 vets, rest experts:
KM Bomber, delayed to 120: 3,222,400
KM Bomber, classed at 66 only: 3,232,768
KM Bomber, classed at 66 and 75: 3,185,293

KM Fighter, delayed to 120: 3,458,950
KM Fighter, classed at 60 only: 3,400,690
KM Fighter, classed at 60 and 75: 3,304,795

200 vets, rest experts:
KM Bomber, delayed to 120: 4,240,000
KM Bomber, classed at 66 only: 4,315,168
KM Bomber, classed at 66 and 75: 4,308,193

KM Fighter, delayed to 120: 4,551,250
KM Fighter, classed at 60 only: 4,546,990
KM Fighter, classed at 60 and 75: 4,478,095

Due to KM high given stats to bomber(+7 vs standard +5), delayed classing bombers only exceed classing them at 66 (only the first upclass) when you break 252 vets, 260 being the 40% max.

Edit: I would welcome someone to prove me wrong.

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    12. 22. 2012 02:02


Benser33

Originally Posted by torion

I did my own calculations for KM:

Assuming elite on both(+13):

100 vets, rest experts:
KM Bomber, delayed to 120: 3,222,400
KM Bomber, classed at 66 only: 3,232,768
KM Bomber, classed at 66 and 75: 3,185,293

KM Fighter, delayed to 120: 3,458,950
KM Fighter, classed at 60 only: 3,400,690
KM Fighter, classed at 60 and 75: 3,304,795

200 vets, rest experts:
KM Bomber, delayed to 120: 4,240,000
KM Bomber, classed at 66 only: 4,315,168
KM Bomber, classed at 66 and 75: 4,308,193

KM Fighter, delayed to 120: 4,551,250
KM Fighter, classed at 60 only: 4,546,990
KM Fighter, classed at 60 and 75: 4,478,095

Due to KM high given stats to bomber(+7 vs standard +5), delayed classing bombers only exceed classing them at 66 (only the first upclass) when you break 252 vets, 260 being the 40% max.

Edit: I would welcome someone to prove me wrong.

 

I came up with the following values for KM Bombers;

100 vets, classed as Bomber; 3,213,660

100 vets, classed as Ace Bomber; 3,263,232

100 vets, classed as Sqd Ldr Bomber; 3,237,204

 

Which, as Bong pointed out, is indeed correct. However, if you try to reach a pilots greatest potential...

 

40% vets, 60% experts, classed as Bomber; 4,837,404

40% vets, 60% experts, classed as Ace Bomber; 4,775,390

40% vets, 60% experts, classed as Sqd Ldr Bomber; 4,611,209

 

Those KM bombers cannot exceed those TA values. The maximum bomber ability any KM bomber could achieve is 5,043,324, which is a lvl 120 +14 (Hero sailor), boosted, 40% vets, 60% experts delayed basic Bomber.

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    01. 16. 2014 18:11


Joker789

Any problem if I class my late classed 120 FP's to ace or sq if not should i jsut class as ace>sq or directly to SQ?They ll be different in any way or same as they were?

 

 

Thanks in advance Joker.

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    01. 17. 2014 04:10


JonARobinson

Originally Posted by Benser33

Originally Posted by V2CxBongRipz

Do the math.

 

A KM fighter @120 with 150 vets has 3,885,000 ta

A KM ace fighter @ 120 with 150 vets has 3,829,100 ta

 

A KM fighter @ 120 with 100 vets has 3,306,950

A KM ace fighter @ 120 with 100 vets has 3,293,000

 

While I was only able to understand once I saw and read the post, I do see what you mean now and I admit I didn't realise it was possible for the ace pilot to sometimes overtake the fighter pilot in terms of TA at certain levels of vets. However, I based most of my calculations on maximum potential and a common potential, I just happened to skip all the areas between 100 vets and 40% vets and, upon seeing them both better the ace and sqd ldr promotions assumed the same remained consistant between the two points. It's interesting to see that the ace fighter actually manages to overtake the fighter pilot thanks to its lower total crew count which I didnt actually think was possible, and again is only limited by its crew count causing it to lose to the fighter at the most extreme levels of vets.

 

However, your above quoted post doesn't really support anything except my original argument that delayed fighter pilots are better :/ and even though the ace fighters are able to overtake the fighters ability, once the ace hits maximum vets it takes only ten more vets on the delayed fighter and it's back in the lead. True that the ace fighter is sometimes better, but that advantage is pretty negligible and in the end it reduces maximum potential. The 'best' pilot is still the basic promotion.



HELP!!!! lol.

I have lvl 120 12/10 (12ft/10air) KM ft that I brought up from neuts, they are boosted, have single figure recruits and around 130-150 vets each. They are also classed on time every time.

I don't really see much difference in ability? I mean on the odd occasion I have trouble with a 120 IJN or KM CV but usually if I micro I overcome that. And I just assumed it was down to the overvetting most people do, plus using seaman. I have no seaman either btw.

Exactly how much effect does these differences in TA have?

Please don't flame me, my KM CV crew was only the second crew I levelled and it was a good few years ago.

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    01. 17. 2014 10:08


HeroEnVec

bear with me... I am not up on the late classing stuff.

Recall this thread:  http://fm.en.kupaisky.com/Community/Forum/View.aspx?num=20487&searchtype=0&pagecount=0&searchvalue=&sort=5&category=C01&page1=2

for a scout:

The two recon classings do nothing to displayed ability of a scout.  Does classing them on time as recon and ace recon decrease their ability by limiting crew? 

 

 

  • Re : Fighter/Bomber ability.

    01. 17. 2014 10:52


Benser33

Originally Posted by HeroEnVec

bear with me... I am not up on the late classing stuff.

Recall this thread:  http://fm.en.kupaisky.com/Community/Forum/View.aspx?num=20487&searchtype=0&pagecount=0&searchvalue=&sort=5&category=C01&page1=2

for a scout:

The two recon classings do nothing to displayed ability of a scout.  Does classing them on time as recon and ace recon decrease their ability by limiting crew? 

Special Forces, Rookie Pilot, Recon Pilot and Ace Recon all add 5 men every level, so the level you choose to manage these classes wont matter. A recon pilot will have 650 men at 120 no matter how you class it.

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