*Whats your justification for making it 5 knots slower than a SY for a barely noticeable
increase in range? How does that sound balanced at all?

Speed is important, otherwise everyone would just AW all of their ships, your argument
isn't valid. *

His argument is valid, with a full lv120 crew and some armour (0.1 deck, 0.1 belt and 1
bulkhead) my L2 does 37knts; which is 5knts slower than the SY. Yet the L2 can still
dominate an SY because of:

- Greater hitting power.
- Greater range.
- Greater survivability.

How are those not different from the SN BB5? And the range IS noticable, otherwise people
would not be constantly bringing it up.

*Speed affects turning ability, which affects the efficiency of swinging; and the ability at a
line battle; I believe that in a higher skilled large scale BB room, SN will suffer due to
this hang time issue; while it's good at defending, it cannot push nearly as effective as
KM, and if you fire on your target when he's pushing (not rushing), you're wasting
ammo.*

Your suggesting in this 'higher skilled large scale BB room' the SN BB player would not
adjust his/her angles before firing at a pushing player. I always adjust when being pushed
or rushed regardless of my original gun angle and it works 90% of the time so why wouldn't
a 'higher skilled' player?

SN look as though they are meant to be a defensive BB nation, so why push for it to be
offensive?

Speed affects turning ability, which affects the efficiency of swinging; and the ability at a
line battle; I believe that in a higher skilled large scale BB room, SN will suffer due to
this hang time issue; while it's good at defending, it cannot push nearly as effective as
KM, and if you fire on your target when he's pushing (not rushing), you're wasting
ammo.

I'd rather keep the 110 guns at L2/SY range than the current between SY and Monty
range; as it has 18 turning force+37kn.

In huge huge linefights, all that matters is range and what damage you can do at that range.

The thing is, KM hits like paper, so you can rack up huge amounts of attack, but you're
probably not going to sink very much. SN has close the same amount of range, but can
easily cripple shot a lot of things. KM can do the most damage on the line, but it's not
going to kill very much. SN on the other hand...

That aside, I don't think that linefights are a very good indication of a ships fighting
ability. 5v5 6v6, 7v7 are way better because you have isolated ships and ships on the
line. Speed's real value comes to play against defending flanks and flanking.

The quads have huge damage and the best average range. They have a 45 degree angle and
fantastic armour penetration.

would like to also throw in with Willg on the bb5 gun issue. I think the ship already has more
then enough disadvantages (post subm nerf) buffing the 100s to 110 range is good, but I
don't see the reason for nerfing range on the quads when the stats on the ship are so
horrid.

Thing is, its alot easier now there are more BB's in GB2. But its about situations. One ship
cant be the best in linefights and isolated. They can't all be good in linefights and being
isolated. Or else they will be clones.

Add two more BB's to GB2, and you are probably at a sweet spot.

Both BB/HA and GB (or any other type of room) are important, and it needs to work
in both. A change to balance something for BB rooms/HA that would cause an
imbalance in Gb rooms will not be accepted at all. It needs to work out in both.

Tell that to to the KM bb4/5/6. They are severely disadvantaged in GB because GB is all
about maximum damage. A GB is the Montana's and Charlemagne's playground.

I honestly can't believe you posted that Mailman.

Each ship has a unique ability and can counter the different ships.

As it sits SN has too many unique abilities.

Given the change to more BB's in GB2, the whole old "Imbalanced in GB, balanced in BB
room" situation has pretty much gone; The only issue is bad players playing the ships; And
we can't balance for bad players, otherwise all ships will be clones.

I agree, swapping the ranges is a good starting point; Although I still think KM should have
the most range.

Can we also increase the BB4 Gun Angle to 45 degree's?

We need to leave the idea behind that only the performance in BB rooms counts or
that the performance there is the most important thing.

Both BB/HA and GB (or any other type of room) are important, and it needs to work
in both. A change to balance something for BB rooms/HA that would cause an
imbalance in Gb rooms will not be accepted at all. It needs to work out in both.

For now I see that we want the 110's nerfed (rangewise) and the lvl 100's buffed
(again rangewise). Let's start with swapping the ranges on both gunsets (as that
should be easiest for the devs, and it would result in buffing the 10's and nerfing the
110's) and see what needs to happen from there.

And please, keep some attention on MN also, that is supposed to be our main
project at this point.

So that it is weaker when it is isolated, and allows the lower ranged ships to get in range
when battles start to open up or blind spots are taken advantage of.

As I said, it could work either way, and I would like to see how each way works; We can
easily test by setting them to KinLuu's values, and using a lower engine when we want to
test the lower speed.