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  • Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 22. 2013 11:18

Recommend : 112

PictWarrior1

 

Please explain to me why CVs in NF have the ability to use sonar?  Do we no longer start players out in ASW capable ships?  Are we telling them that we have no use for teamwork savvy players who wish to escort capital ships? 

 

A support ticket on this subject told me that because CVs did not have the ability to see submarines when the game started, that they were given sonar to counter the submarine threat.  Well BBs, BCs, and CAs can't see submarines either so when will they be given sonar?  In fact, just remove the need for sonar altogether and allow everyone to see submarines no matter where they are.

 

Never in the history of mankind has sonar ever been successfully implemented on a carrier.  Capital ships make entirely too much self-noise.  If a CV were to be fitted with sonar, the only thing it would hear would be the sound of its own screws and engines.  Nevermind the sound of catapults, aircraft engines and propellers, steam, and arrestor cables and machinery. 

 

The idea of a CV being sonar capable is completely laughable.  And don't give me crap about NF =/= RL.  There has to be some basis in reality or we'd be using rail guns, jets, and satellite superlasers.

 

How am I qualified to argue against CVs using sonar?  I was a Sonar Technician in the United States Navy.  I know exactly how loud a CV is.  We could hear one pulling out of San Diego when our DDG was just leaving Hawaii.  It's no secret.

 

So what big spending, influential CV player cried to the GMs and managed to convince them that the loudest class of warship on the planet is sonar capable?  Because I want to cry to that same GM that my New York should be able to bounce Kaiser shells.  After all, a QV can, why shouldn't  my ebb1?

 

Or, if CVs should continue to use sonar, lets just let everyone use it and remove the lower level ASW ships from the game entirely.  If we are going to remove their purpose, why not remove them entirely?

 

Oh, and for the record:  I don't drive subs so this isn't a long-winded complaint about being sunk by a CV that could see me.

 

This is just an argument for sanity, common sense, and game balance.

 

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 23. 2013 10:59


PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by Plazmadj

 No ship in Navyfield should be able to be an "unseen" threat by default. Every ship should have the option to use sailors to allow them to be seen at certain ranges.

Right, and no ship should be able to shoot another before the other can shoot it.  Why do some BBs get a longer range than others?  That's not fair. 

Furthermore, why are CVs able to launch planes and BBs can't?  That makes no sense at all.  NF =/= RL so why can't BBs launch waves of fps and dbs?

Why are we limited to WWII realism with the guns on our BBs?  Why can't we have superlasers?

Why can't we use F/A-18 Superhornets?  Why can't we launch nuclear missiles from our submarines? 

 

Perhaps some degree of realism is necessary in a game that most forget is based upon some level of simulation?  I grow tired of this NF =/= RL crap that people love to spout off about.  Yes, there are things that will be a little bit (or a lot bit) off to make it more "game friendly" but realism has a place here.  It has to or this game is based on nothing at all.  After all, the ships are based on real ships or real designs of ships.  The Japanese long-lance torpedos are based in reality.  The guns on the Iowa are based in reality.  The speed of the South Dakota class is based in reality.

 

There are many things that have been stretched a bit to make them fit but most everything has some basis in Real Life.  Whether or not you want to admit that has no effect on the truth of it.  You can say NF =/= RL all you want but you know that it is not entirely true.

 

I am asking that one of the biggest falsehoods in the entire game be corrected.  There is absolutely no basis in any dimensional reality that exists in this universe or any other, that would allow a CV to hear anything but itself if some idiot decided to outfit one with sonar.  Of all the dumb things in this game, this is one of the stupidest.  Other than submarine down-time being decided by its quantity of air rather than its charge of battery.  That pisses me off too, but that's a very old thread that I don't feel like necro'ing right now.

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 23. 2013 11:55


TG_Salihreis

Originally Posted by PictWarrior1
Please explain to me why CVs in NF have the ability to use sonar?
That's because you touch yourself when you are alone. Just joking.

Good point bro. Recommended.

If you are giving working sonar to CV, why not let cv submerge or fly?

 

Originally Posted by rnelsonbob
since cv have sonar nowadays whats the point of having the escort option... i mean thats what they were for to begin with; so that the escort was a sonar or AA ship... now CVs dont need it anymore, they can just run with a sonorman on the cv and frankly the escort AA just suxs so that option is kinda worthless also
+1 rnelsonbob

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 23. 2013 14:16


PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by Ultra_Dog

Since I have only 8 slots, I carry 8 pilots.  I can still bring an escort with sonar.

Have not been sunk by an SS ever since I acquired it. 

 

That doesn't make it right.  You shouldn't be able to use sonar on a CV.  Each game, you should spot the DDs and ask one to escort you for ASW.  Then he won't feel useless to the team and fictory every game.  He would learn some tactical knowledge about ASW and be useful. 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 23. 2013 15:18


Plazmadj

You do not like when people say NF =/= RL, but what you fail to realize is that when most players state this they actually mean NF Balance =/= Real Life.

This is a game, where balance between ships and nations is necessary to get the most enjoyment for the majority of players. And, as of right now, there are three end-line ship classes: BB, SS, and CV. So, they have made the balance Triangle where SS > BB, BB > CV, and CV > SS.

Yes, sometimes BBs can overcome subs if they equip Hedge Hogs. Sometimes CVs can overcome BBs with enough bombers. And, sometimes Subs can overcome CVs by dodging torps from TBers and dodging HH, or overcome them very easily if the CV doesn't have a Sonarman on board and no friendly ships are close enough to spot it.

This is the main reason that has been given in the past as to why CVs have the ability to equip Sonarmen to spot subs, but here is the tradeoff that I would suggest as has also been suggested by others in the past:

 

Allow all types of ships to equip Sonarmen to spot subs, and in exchange for this remove the damage sustained by subs while in Crit Dive. This way when subs are forced to Crit Dive to avoid torps, HH, or DCs, they will not take damage and will only be using up some of their air.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 23. 2013 15:23


Rehor

Hello.

No.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 23. 2013 15:24


PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by Rehor

Hello.

No.

 

to what?  the overall concept or the post above yours?

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 24. 2013 04:04


Stealth001

In my opinion this topic should be locked and forgiven, even noobs know that you kill an SS by following the torpedos air trace from propultion, since we all know how SS players "shoot" at you, the distance from your ship to the SS shouldnt more than a 10 degree angle of your HHs (being usualy a 7 degree angle)

I dont need a sonarman to kill SS with my CV or my BB, but i wont recomend this post.

If you are expirienced enough you should be able to sink SS with no sonar without any kind of problems, and sinsce the most comon problems for a CV are planes (they carrie fighters for that) and SS, many CVs use HHs and max bulge. I use it, and gives me tons of fun sinking those little sneaky things.

And about the Escort option, is only that, AN OPTION! I dont see even 25% of the CVs in-game using an escort, god damn, not even 20%.... PCAs use more escorts in GB than CVs.

And i can say that i am pretty sure that not even 5% of the CVs under CV6 class uses a sonarman, 6/7 pilots and a Seaman, its more probable to use an Engineer than a sonarman in CV6. So your complains about this are useless. 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 24. 2013 05:45


Billme

i do not have space on a CV to put a sonar or any other sailor. all the way to CV6 there is only enough room for pilots. with gameplay in mind not being able to load a sonar "should" only encourage better cv play. (there will be room for one more pilot).

 

you should not just auto response no. this would in thoery help BB players by planes being launched quicker. all ships have the option to use an escort. you can even use an escort if you are an escort. they are very easy to use.  anyone can recruit a single level 1 sailor and put him on a level 1 neutral ff and have the best sonar in game. so the real question is...............

 

who is dumb enough to put a sonar on their ship and waste a support slot like this? must be alot, or you guys just love to disagree with anything anyone else says. I think its the second option.

as NF has done so many times, they like to encourage smarter game play by telling everyone, what and when you can have what on your ships. IE the new aircraft level patch.

 

they only way I use a sonar is when I use an escort.

 

be careful your noob is showing, and this is particulary sad for some of you that have been playing for years.

 

sonar on CV was implememted to encourage the sale of PHH.

people in this game never seist to amaze me. in one post they are completely against P2W but if some one else brings it up they are all for it.

 

use your brain ..... dont be a dwarf!

 

"have you played Nf?"

  "yeah, great game!"

"until you meet the players"

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 24. 2013 15:29


Rehor

And the thread produces another good chuckle.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 24. 2013 18:57


ChicagoBears

So you want subs to be able to farm CVs with no resistance or threat to the sub from the CV?

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