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  • Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 22. 2013 11:18

Recommend : 112

PictWarrior1

 

Please explain to me why CVs in NF have the ability to use sonar?  Do we no longer start players out in ASW capable ships?  Are we telling them that we have no use for teamwork savvy players who wish to escort capital ships? 

 

A support ticket on this subject told me that because CVs did not have the ability to see submarines when the game started, that they were given sonar to counter the submarine threat.  Well BBs, BCs, and CAs can't see submarines either so when will they be given sonar?  In fact, just remove the need for sonar altogether and allow everyone to see submarines no matter where they are.

 

Never in the history of mankind has sonar ever been successfully implemented on a carrier.  Capital ships make entirely too much self-noise.  If a CV were to be fitted with sonar, the only thing it would hear would be the sound of its own screws and engines.  Nevermind the sound of catapults, aircraft engines and propellers, steam, and arrestor cables and machinery. 

 

The idea of a CV being sonar capable is completely laughable.  And don't give me crap about NF =/= RL.  There has to be some basis in reality or we'd be using rail guns, jets, and satellite superlasers.

 

How am I qualified to argue against CVs using sonar?  I was a Sonar Technician in the United States Navy.  I know exactly how loud a CV is.  We could hear one pulling out of San Diego when our DDG was just leaving Hawaii.  It's no secret.

 

So what big spending, influential CV player cried to the GMs and managed to convince them that the loudest class of warship on the planet is sonar capable?  Because I want to cry to that same GM that my New York should be able to bounce Kaiser shells.  After all, a QV can, why shouldn't  my ebb1?

 

Or, if CVs should continue to use sonar, lets just let everyone use it and remove the lower level ASW ships from the game entirely.  If we are going to remove their purpose, why not remove them entirely?

 

Oh, and for the record:  I don't drive subs so this isn't a long-winded complaint about being sunk by a CV that could see me.

 

This is just an argument for sanity, common sense, and game balance.

 

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 17. 2013 07:13


klython

Scissor = BB

Paper = CV

St.one = SS

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BB > CV

CV > SS

SS > BB

 

hope you get the logic

 

well if you still argue then play CV with sonar in it instead of SS

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 17. 2013 10:59


woodskier

Originally Posted by flaggelant

Originally Posted by woodskier

Originally Posted by burger101

Just get rid of subs so we can stop arguing...




Fact: The topic is " remove sonar from CV"  

Fact: The game is marketed as a w w 2 game.   CV 's did not have sonar in w w 2.  


CV allready have alot of asw:


CV's can use DB, TB, guns, HH,torps, mines ect. against SS.


and they do..having been sunk many times by lurking TB's and CV with HH.  When i CV i luv going on asw patrol, the sonar seems to be better in the CV than the SS.     
  



but cv's did play an important role in ASW suring WW2.
so as long as there's no aircraft with a specific asw function the sonar is fine with me. 



  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 17. 2013 13:51


PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by flaggelant

but cv's did play an important role in ASW suring WW2.
so as long as there's no aircraft with a specific asw function the sonar is fine with me. 

Why should there be aircraft with a specific asw function?  There were no sonobuoys in WWII.  The idea was being tested and there was some late-war prototypes developed but nothing workable.  So since there were no sonobuoys in WWII, there certainly shouldn't be any in this game.  Aircraft in WWII were simply scouting for submarines on the surface or at shallow depths.  If they had a bomb they would try to damage it, otherwise they would just report it's position to surface vessels.

 

But that is off topic, regardless of aircraft asw usage in WWII, CVs did not and could not use sonar.  Therefore they should not be using it in this game. 

 

The only reason that I can think of for the devs making it possible, was that enough CV players who spend $100s each month convinced them to give sonar to CVs.  There is no other workable excuse for it.  Therefore, it should be removed. 

 

Even more confusing than CVs using sonar, is the people who are trying to justify it based on no facts, no good excuses, and no sense of logic.  They argue that CVs can't see subs so they should get sonar.  They argue that escort ships don't do their jobs so CVs should get sonar.  They argue that scouts can't drop sonobuoys so CVs should have sonar.  And they argue that CVs can't defend themselves so CVs should get sonar.  None of these are logical and none of them are justifiable.  BBs don't have sonar but they are under the same threat.  CAs don't have sonar but they are under the same threat too.  So either give everyone sonar, or take it away from the CVs.  Why the special treatment?  Players in DDs and FFs aren't doing asw?  Well instead of insulting them, try teaching them and explain how they can perform a valuable fuction in low level ships, rather than giving them the impression that they are completely useless until they reach their BB5.

 

There is no good reason for CVs to have sonar.  Take it way.

 

And for the record, I drive CVs myself and still don't feel that I should have sonar.  Is it convenient?  Yes.  Does it make any sense?  No.  Take it way.

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 06:13


flaggelant

quick wiki search wasy; 168 axis subs sank by aircraft (thats a hell of a lot more than BB's sunk by BB's).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare

 with depthcharges & magnetic torpedoes & such, so aircraft were equiped for destruction of submarines, not only the ones that were surfaced (which even a scout plane with a single 30-50kg bomb could sink)

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 07:42


PictWarrior1

fair enough but that still doesn't validate giving sonar to the CV.  Nor does it validate sonobuoys.  If a CV wants to sink subs, load tbs and spot the subs at the start of the game.  TB the subs as soon as they are spotted by friendly subs and the threat is gone.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 14:06


flaggelant

well adding depth charges to the light flares & mines would be a hystorically accurate addition that could validate for the loss of the sonar abilty. 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 16:57


DeathAddict
People should remember that if they need a sonar ship then they should use an ff/ cl/ dd put a sonar man on then put the ship on escort. How hard is it to also just be weary of subs and watch the team chat. If you arent smart enough to watch the team chat or watch where subs spawn then you deserve to be sunk by a sub. A good cv player always knows what might be lurking around him/her. While it looks like it isnt fair for CVs to get sunk by a sub, its much more unfair that CVs will be able to spot subs without the aid of ASWs.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 18:27


Kriegsmarin

Sonar should have only FF and DD

But only noob can put sonar on cv whean he can take escort and put sonar on escort and save slot for pilot for pcv & cv6 can put seaman/engine......

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 18:42


Kriegsmarin

Originally Posted by SylverXI

Ever heard of Escort carriers?

CV's where used to counter SS in WWII. Unless they give planes the ability to detect SS, I say, CV's should have the ability to equip Sonar.(which is more fair than spamming sonar-able planes)

 



hahhhahahhahahhahahahhhahahahhahahahahha what a newb

you realy think planes had sonar in ww2 ahhahhahahhahahha

Escort carrier is created that conwoys can have air protection in black gap of atlantik where aircrafts from that time coudnt fly from ground bases
Planes of ww2 was fit with radar and subs of ww2 was 99% on surface , they dived only for action or to hide from enemy units

This newb make my day ahhhhahhahahhahhhahhhhhahahhhahahahhahahhhaha

I will give you advice mate rather check history facts before you post such funny untrue content

hahhahhahhahahhahahhhahhahhahhhhhahahahahahahhahhahahhaha

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    07. 22. 2013 19:18


facepalm

Originally Posted by Kriegsmarin

Originally Posted by SylverXI

Ever heard of Escort carriers?

CV's where used to counter SS in WWII. Unless they give planes the ability to detect SS, I say, CV's should have the ability to equip Sonar.(which is more fair than spamming sonar-able planes)

 



hahhhahahhahahhahahahhhahahahhahahahahha what a newb

you realy think planes had sonar in ww2 ahhahhahahhahahha

Escort carrier is created that conwoys can have air protection in black gap of atlantik where aircrafts from that time coudnt fly from ground bases
Planes of ww2 was fit with radar and subs of ww2 was 99% on surface , they dived only for action or to hide from enemy units

This newb make my day ahhhhahhahahhahhhahhhhhahahhhahahahhahahhhaha

I will give you advice mate rather check history facts before you post such funny untrue content

hahhahhahhahahhahahhhahhahhahhhhhahahahahahahhahhahahhaha




actually planes did have sonor althou not in the sense that you would think called sonobouys that PBYs droped via the air and it is a wwII plane.( althou not carrier based obviously b/c of thier size ). A sonobouy is pretty much a long tube that breaks apart in the water and acts as a sonar. The technology hasnt changed much since then either.

you can read this article 

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/asw/air_antisubwar.html

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