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  • Remove Sonar From CVs

    04. 22. 2013 11:18

Recommend : 112

PictWarrior1

 

Please explain to me why CVs in NF have the ability to use sonar?  Do we no longer start players out in ASW capable ships?  Are we telling them that we have no use for teamwork savvy players who wish to escort capital ships? 

 

A support ticket on this subject told me that because CVs did not have the ability to see submarines when the game started, that they were given sonar to counter the submarine threat.  Well BBs, BCs, and CAs can't see submarines either so when will they be given sonar?  In fact, just remove the need for sonar altogether and allow everyone to see submarines no matter where they are.

 

Never in the history of mankind has sonar ever been successfully implemented on a carrier.  Capital ships make entirely too much self-noise.  If a CV were to be fitted with sonar, the only thing it would hear would be the sound of its own screws and engines.  Nevermind the sound of catapults, aircraft engines and propellers, steam, and arrestor cables and machinery. 

 

The idea of a CV being sonar capable is completely laughable.  And don't give me crap about NF =/= RL.  There has to be some basis in reality or we'd be using rail guns, jets, and satellite superlasers.

 

How am I qualified to argue against CVs using sonar?  I was a Sonar Technician in the United States Navy.  I know exactly how loud a CV is.  We could hear one pulling out of San Diego when our DDG was just leaving Hawaii.  It's no secret.

 

So what big spending, influential CV player cried to the GMs and managed to convince them that the loudest class of warship on the planet is sonar capable?  Because I want to cry to that same GM that my New York should be able to bounce Kaiser shells.  After all, a QV can, why shouldn't  my ebb1?

 

Or, if CVs should continue to use sonar, lets just let everyone use it and remove the lower level ASW ships from the game entirely.  If we are going to remove their purpose, why not remove them entirely?

 

Oh, and for the record:  I don't drive subs so this isn't a long-winded complaint about being sunk by a CV that could see me.

 

This is just an argument for sanity, common sense, and game balance.

 

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    01. 28. 2014 18:56


connan_add

I think you said it best to just remove sonar altogether and allow everyone to see subs. Aircraft were used  quiet well for sporting them.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    01. 28. 2014 22:01


PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by connan_add

I think you said it best to just remove sonar altogether and allow everyone to see subs. Aircraft were used  quiet well for sporting them.

 

*quite*  and "spotting"  I think you mean...

 

Aircraft spotted surfaced and snorkeling subs only.  Once dived, unless the water was very clear and very shallow (like Diego Garcia or similar), aircraft could not spot them easily.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    01. 29. 2014 04:04


Meastro444

If you use the 'Realism has a place in this game' argument, remove the sonar from the CV and make SS's die from one bb shell.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    01. 29. 2014 06:24


PictWarrior1

now we're on the same page...

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    01. 30. 2014 03:31


jmons123

Originally Posted by Meastro444

If you use the 'Realism has a place in this game' argument, remove the sonar from the CV and make SS's die from one bb shell.



i agree with this 
well on real worldwarII that work but on this HELL NO lol 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    01. 31. 2014 18:07


kabukinoh

I don't have a problem with a CV having sonar, but I think it should be severely limited. Meaning that the sub has to be within a much closer distance than it currently does before the CV is able to detect it.  Let's face it, a sub running at periscope depth was harder to detect (even without sonar) at a distance, than it might be up close.  The closer the sub got to the target, the more likely it's silouhette or scope wake would be seen. (Fyi, WW2 periscope depth was around 40 feet under water. (give or take).  It was easy, in clear seas, to actually see the submarine under water at these depths, long as the conditions were right.  By limiting the sonar range to something less than what it is, you still give the CV a chance to evade or do something about the sub, while at the same time better simulate a sighting by visual means.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    02. 01. 2014 17:08


PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by kabukinoh

 the sub has to be within a much closer distance than it currently does before the CV is able to detect it.

 

it's not about range, it's about the amount of noise the CV is making.  So if CVs are allowed to use sonar, they should have to reduce their speed to around 3 kts maximum in order to use it.  Any speed over that disables the sonar, just like OH disables it on a DD...   same principle but with a significantly reduced speed.  0-3 and it has sonar, 4+ and no sonar.

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    02. 06. 2014 11:57


kabukinoh

Originally Posted by PictWarrior1

Originally Posted by kabukinoh

 the sub has to be within a much closer distance than it currently does before the CV is able to detect it.

 

it's not about range, it's about the amount of noise the CV is making.  So if CVs are allowed to use sonar, they should have to reduce their speed to around 3 kts maximum in order to use it.  Any speed over that disables the sonar, just like OH disables it on a DD...   same principle but with a significantly reduced speed.  0-3 and it has sonar, 4+ and no sonar.



This is actually not a bad idea. Though you do present a possible twist to it. 

What would you think of the following:

When operating at a dead slow, no more than 8 to 10 kts, submarines are in silent mode and far harder to detect?  You are correct though, above a certain speed, it would only make sense that a CV would be unable to use its ASDIC (sonar) properly, since it would be creating a great deal of noice through cavitation and screw noises. 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    02. 11. 2014 21:10


joris92

Leave it on carriers. The chance that a CV helps you fighting vs a SS is like 10%, the chance that you have a good ASW ship is 1%. If there was more teamplay I would have agreed, but there isn't. =')

Might give a credit bonus for sinking subs to play ASW.

It's well balanced now, otherwise it only gets easier for the submarines. BTW I really don't care about reality anymore..

 

  • Re : Remove Sonar From CVs

    02. 16. 2014 08:42


reddofnoynac

maybe you have different sound sprites that everyone else doesnt have but when did the engines in NF make noise?

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