Well that the point of the Vanny it used to be able to take some hits now it can't,
same with the guns, it took me about 6 shots 25-30 degree angles on a L2 and I
took his DP down to about a quarter.

He was getting off 1 1/2 shots to my 1 and same goes for other BB4. Do others that
play the Vanny see this as a problem?
=======================================================

You are right on one point, I do feel that the Vanny can't take as much of a hit as it use
to. I use to be able to live through a full Monty salvo, be in red, but still survive. Now
I sink with that kind of salvo on me.

To your guns comment. If you land 6 full shots on a L2 and it takes him down only a
quarter... next time you encounter him, try AP. Things will change dramatically. Because
on an unarmored L2, I land 4 shots, sometimes 3 and it's sunk. Either you're not landing
full shots or he's armored. You can tell if he's armored if you land a full shot and not
be over 10k damage.

To your reload comment vs a L2. If he's getting 1 and a half shots for your 1, either
you're not mashing the shoot button enough or he's not using the right guns. When both at
reload cap, there is no reason why the Vanny gun reloads longer than the L2 guns. As for
reloading longer than other BB4s, what's wrong with that? UK is suppose to have slow
reload. The other BB4s are suppose to reload faster than you. You sacriface reload for
spread in UK. So no, I don't see it as a problem at all.

Well that the point of the Vanny it used to be able to take some hits now it can't,
same with the guns, it took me about 6 shots 25-30 degree angles on a L2 and I
took his DP down to about a quarter.

He was getting off 1 1/2 shots to my 1 and same goes for other BB4. Do others that
play the Vanny see this as a problem?

About POW, I have been with the AW with 1 Quad and dual 14" L. While the spread is a bit
fishy, it's a great ship to rush in, hit, tank some, and pull out. The 14" shell damage is
ok. Idk how you think it hits like KM 11" lol.

On L1, with 5 120 engies and 2 120 reps + gunners, BO and scout(all 120) and 3 binds of
ammo, I can fit 9.5" of deck, which is enough to bounce all BB4s except yammy. Actually,
at 9.2" and 9.3", Iowa already start bouncing, so that's even more space for crew.

lol shaggs :)

<- goes to re-read what he said about Iowa

Disclaimer: the BB4 balance is pretty close, so differences are pretty minuscule.

Ok: "Iowa is Awesome for defensive play, but cannot attack well due to the high gunnery angle
of 45."

The reason I say this is I can -just about- 100% block (damage them without taking damage)
an iowa in one on one type situations in a BB1-4 style (or fleet war style) room while
playing a vanny or H39. The following analogy applies more to the Lion I, but I think I
will get my point to you.

Its like a heavy hitting boxer Vs a boxer with a long quick jab. One hit from the big guy
and you -might- be out, but the big guy is going to eat 100 jabs before he even gets a
chance to get a shot in. The few talented and knowledgeable players that recently posted
feel the iowa can be played offensively, which I agree with... but it is a -different-
offence than that played by H39 or vanny.

My one sentence about the ship was a bit too vague, and for that, I am sorry. You guys
are correct, I just didn't quite say what I meant. :)

Oh, and I think vanny is about as fragile as H39. Iowa, H39, and non-armored lion -feel-
to me like they can take a hit better.

Joseph, regarding POW:
dual quad N : too short of a range in a BB3 style game to be of any effect

3x Mk3N dual 15" : good range and angle with good speed... but you need great gunners to
have the spread to make the ship effective. Also, BB2 range

quad dual quad 14"L : Range less than other BB3's, shell have the same hitting power as KM
11" with nearly 3 ship widths less range.

16"L x2, dual 14" on mid turret. Same range as quad dual quad but with some hitting
power. This set up has just under a ship width less range than Mk3N, thus every BB2 in
game will outrange you.

To me, this tells me that in a real battle (BB1-3) the POW is not a viable option.

***TO FIX the POW, in my opinion, would be to allow the use of the Mk.3 L guns. I have
not extensively tested them, but I think they have just a touch more range than the
Nagato/sodak. Given that this set up would give 6 shells per salvo, I think having more
range is a fair exchange for less fire power. Bam, easy fix, the community has a
functional BB3. :)

(I will make a post about nelly this week I hope)

Again, that is an opinion... which considers I am -not- playing against morons that let me
get in range of them with quad N's.

Regarding 3 gun L1 armor whore: I have fat crew. with three open crew slots I can make
37 knts and get about 9.5" deck with no bulge and .2 belt. Thats functional, but low lvl
guys cannot omit crew.

***Can someone with an at lvl crew chime in and tell us how much deck armor you can get
with full crew under lvl 100, and at what speed you are running?***

Thanks

Hero

HeroEnVec, your post does seem quite accurate, but like others have said: I disagree with
your assessment of the Iowa. I feel, that it can be played quite offensive, due to the
almost hax-like hitbox. This balances out the 45 degree angles. In addition, at high
levels it has a huge damage output due to the incredibly tight spread.

Bear in mind, these are small points and do not take away from your overall stance.

As far as ONF2 being KM-biased, it seems this quote applies:
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"

Hero, your opinion on the BB3s is quite what I have right now, excluding maybe the POW,
which I have been quite sucessful using. Remember there are MANY setups for the POW. I
guess its just finding the right one for you. As for the whole BB4/vanny setup, I can say
we(ONF) epically failed in regards to the Lion. Here is what we accomplished:

- Nerfing 3 gunned non-AW setup, which absolutely didn't needed to be nerfed(there was
quite a lot of discussion in this, but "nerfing" the AW version ended up being more
important then keeping the balance with a perfectly fine setup).
- Buffing(yes, buffing) AW setup, since it is now possible to AW with 3 guns(and quite
effectively).

So yea, a fix for it is in progress, and it looks quite nicely ;)

I disagree with you on Iowa, it can very well be played as an agressive ship, the only
reason I wouldn't rank it as the best BB4 is for its poor armor penetration, even at 45
degrees.

As for H39 and vanny, I dont really see why anyone would choose vanny over H39. I have
been playing with H39 a lot lately, and that ship is absolutely wonderful if it weren't
for all the 3 gunned AW L1s(<.<). Comparing it to vanny, the only aspect in which it
looses is its ability to take damage. H39 is a bit easier to hit and probably has somewhat
less submergence not mentioning better UK supports. As for everything else, such as
damage, AA and range, H39 beats vanny hands down.

Iowa is so abusable though. If your bloody hard to hit, its bloody hard to get sunk! Hax
Hitbox ftw!

I just call it like I see it Lj ;)

"Although I disagree with regards to the Iowa. When played right, it is far better than
any BB4 ;]"
In fleet war style battles I'd agree with you. 8 on 8 BB1-4's are so heavily influenced
by aa though...

Back to vanny to dissuade Lj from utilizing his cannon!

Before we can touch the Vanguard, we need to fix the L1.

Lets just say, that is going amazingly well :D

Nice post regarding BB34 Hero; Will most probably get a mention on the ONF forums.
Although I disagree with regards to the Iowa. When played right, it is far better than any
BB4 ;] And can you stop with the open flaming about ONF2? Its gone, I'm here, whining
about it won't change patches. The Last ONF team wasn't "KM Biased". Although team didn't
matter there...

But yeah, get discussion back to Vanguard/BB4 balance or I will hit you with my Ion Cannon!

The truth hurts, eh Bgron? By the by, such posts just make you look like an imbecile, so
keep it up in the event that is true. :)