In ONF, we tested both:

1. Vanguard with the old range and turning force, but going 44 knots:
Result: That worked terribly. It lacked range and firepower, having to rely almost solely
on a player's capacity to dodge shells to perform well. That works well in a pure 1v1(and
even then not that much) but was terrible in any other situation.

We then discussed if it we should either slightly improve spread/reload or tone down speed
to 40/42 and give it Iowa/Yamato range. It was almost a consesus to go for the latter.

2. Vanguard with reduced turning force and increased range(what it is now):
Result: That worked better. Being able to compete range wise with the other BB4s and have
a very small hitbox helped a lot to compensate it's lack of firepower. It is still, IMO,
not a very competitve BB4.

Unfortunately, it was rushed, and while some members continued disagreeing with a lot of
the proposals, the patch was implemented.

If you ask me, and to keep things simple, Vanny could simply use either a range increase
or shell damage increase.

""""""I don't quite know what's going on with it, but all my shell routinely bounces for 3-400
damage against un-armored ships like H39's and Yammys.""""""

that sounds like a big load of bull, but hey, i know it's possible.
and if that is with HE, it suffers from damage inconsistency just like H44/KaizOr 18"/20"

but oh well, i'm not going to say anything i only played Vangod pre-patch:D

Honestly, when I played the post patch vanguard on the normal servers, I was surprised at
the lower damage and completely messed up spread. I also think the range had been changed
too. As I said, I believed it was rushed (actually, Kin-Luu's description was better).
Testing was going well, then for some reason it was pushed through too early.

The vanguard was tested with multiple level crews.

Obst and Gruven are no longer related to ONF, and it is under new leadership. They were
both very organised.

Just wondering the old ONF that tested the Vanny among other ships where they
mixed levels?

Or were most of the ONF testers 110/115+ crews and was the spread actually
looked into. I ask this because I wasn't sure if OBST had mentioned something
about the spread in a post he made whether this was getting looked into or there
was not much SDE could do about it.

"Uhm... I might be wrong here, but I dont remember us decreasing Vanny dmg? "

I don't quite know what's going on with it, but all my shell routinely bounces for 3-400
damage against un-armored ships like H39's and Yammys. This leads me to think the shell
damage was decreased, as pre-patch the shell were quite hard hitting.

And yes Lucas, I will set up serious testing and set forth a proposal in hope that ONF3
will fix more than is broken. The shame in that is I don't have pre-patch data for
comparison. :\

----
1. Make shell damage equal to the old RP12sL.
----

Uhm... I might be wrong here, but I dont remember us decreasing Vanny dmg?

"But I do really doubt that the vanguard will be balanced ever, ONF had over a year time
and wasnt able, so why should anyone else be able?"

I so wish I could answer that at the moment... Just wait for the announcement.

-------------------------------------

I would discuss what I want doing to the vanguard, however, I am not at liberty to post
these on NF.com. If you have a detailed proposal (not a quick 3/4 pointed list; One that
includes damage per shell, reload times, exact range proposals, turning force ratio's
etc), then send it me in PM and I will make sure the ones that indeed make sense will be
considered.

"It is now commonly known that the Vanny still has issues that need fixing the case is
who is going to look into this? "

"Lets just say that the new ONF 3 is going to be a hell of alot better."

All of the above worry me.

How to fix the vanny:
1. Make shell damage equal to the old RP12sL.
2. Somehow make the spread less erratic
3. make the speed cap with full lvl 95ish crew and 4-5 engies set to 42 knts without AA.
4. Set turning force somewhere between pre patch (too strong) and post patch(not enough)

Done. We have a useable vanny that people can enjoy, and they can still pick a screwed
up/broken L1 if they want huge power and low range/speed.

Parting comment: I think the range of the ship is perfect as is when you consider the 30
angle guns.

does this mean, when a BB2 or BB3 does more attack then this, the BB2 and BB3 are then
better and the BB4 is unbalanced???

Honestly, what kind of logic do you follow??

A good game in GB does not imply a balanced ship.