ASW ships, could be added after the lvl 30 APA tree, gives a valid reason to go that line

"1) If you aren't moving at all, you should have ZERO battery use. You should also be
impossible for anyone without a sonarman to detect."

If you aren't moving at all, you'll get booted from the game for not moving. :)

But 0 detect at 0 speed could work. Just drop DCs on the spot where the submarine
disappeared..It's what they did during the war..Lol.

"I'd say that each of them needs a good 50% cut in damage."

I think giving the ASW a "random" chance would be better then straight up nerfing
them.

Instead of nerfing DCs damage, give them a 50-75% miss chance, using the same bit
of code that gives torps a "dud" chance. So you could spam DCs over the side all day
long and only a few of them would actually do any damage.

As for HHs, make them "contact-only". Shells with a delay. Only HHs that actually hit
the sub do any damage, and then they'd hit for their full HE damage of around 1,300
or so. Not glorified depth charges that they are now.

Torp Reload Time?
Fine as it is.

Torp amount?
Fine as it is
Torp Damage?
Fine as it is

Surface Damage?
Fine now, and I agree that they should be very vulnerable. *If* we ever get the complete
rework that subs need, they should become even ore vulnerable (though only if they are
rarely on the surface)

"air" (or battery time) ?
Battery. Battery. Battery. Battery. Battery. "Air" is a stupid concept and unfairly limits
the subs to being fictory machines. I agree with rampage on the general idea of slower
speed = more time submerged (and less ASW detection), with a few key differences:
1) If you aren't moving at all, you should have ZERO battery use. You should also be
impossible for anyone without a sonarman to detect.
2) I'm not sure what the exact time would be, but I feel that a sub should be able to
cross the entire map submerged if it is going 5knts or less (well, higher tiers would have
more "battery space", which would allow them to go further faster). They aren't going to
be running anyone down at that speed, but it allows them to position themselves for
maximum benefit. See a flank collapsing? submerge from near the starting point as the Cvs
run away, and slowly creep towards the rushing BBs, without having to worry about running
out of battery in the middle of the fight.

Sub Level (ie T1 sub level 38 T4 Sub level90 etc)?

Sub levels are fine as they are. People who whine about a level 70somthing ship sinking a
level 120 ship are forgetting that this is exactly what subs are supposed to do. They
can't win games all on their own, but they CAN scatter and sink BBs that are rushing
without support.


Finally: the ASW weapons need to be modified as well. All these changes are good, but
still not enough if DCs and HHs remain as overpowered as they currently are. I'd say that
each of them needs a good 50% cut in damage.

@Rampage

That's...not a bad idea. It gives the subs willing to pay attention a quick peek at who
they need to watch out for, but won't tell them in game. I can get behind that.

Maybe show a Sonarman at the pre-game lobby.

A CL could have an "S" over the ship for "Sonar" if it has one onboard, like a CV has
"RFAB" over them depending on what kind of aircraft they are carrying.

@snailgod

I didn't say a BB -can't- make decisions based off of known crew. I said that it doesn't
effect their type of play as much as ship type and level. Different ships use different
guns, and different guns have different ranges. The only time when knowing whether a
ship has an N, L, or D variant gun is when that ship is the same type as yours.
Otherwise you'd be able to -look- at an H44 and say "That's an H44. It has longer
range than I do." without the -need- to know it has L version guns.

A sub has -no- way of knowing whether a ship is equipped with a sonarman. There's no
sign whatsoever. At best, they can hazard a guess that the CL gunning straight for
them has one, but even then it's only a guess. I do see your point, though. It would
make sonar carrying ships a prime target for destruction. Perhaps lowering the
detection range I mentioned might help? Enable the sub to see sonarman equipped
ships only after they are practically on top of the sub?

Facts and figures from here on please guys.

I know. the tactical aspects are awesome.

Slowly creep out to the center of the map and slow down to two or three knots and
watch the battle unfold, and if my team starts to fall back and teh enemy starts to
advance, pick 'em off while they advance. You'd be invulnerable to Kita walls and
almost invisible if you didn't move much, so you could spring some great traps.

This was a real tactic.

Or:

Same as above, and stay in contact with my team. "Hey. I'm here, draw the BB6 past
me." And kablamo.

If you could stay under for a very long time if you hardly move, the door for all kinds
of awesome tactics and team play open up.

@stargazer

Oh how I would love to know how many engineers someone has on. It would tell me how far
and when to run after firing a salvo.
Also, I would love to know if someone has D or L or N variants of their guns.
So BBs can't make decisions based on the opponents crew setup? Giving SS the ability to
find out which DD/FF has a sonarman is basically shouting, "KILL ME AND YOU WILL GET MORE
ATTACK!" It would be awesome if something about a BB said "KILL ME BECAUSE I'M EASY ATTACK!"

Here we go, one last time.

I have edited and hidden 3 posts between here and my last.

Those whose posts I have edited/hidden will get a bollocking if I have to do this again.

The intent of the thread is clear, follow it or do not post - Instructions are simple -
the Goal is simple.

Please guys

Rogue