Personally, I'd be fine with a submerged speed of ~10knts, AS LONG AS the range was
increased to the point that a sub could cross the map under water, with time to spare.
These are supposed to be ships that use secrecy and strategy, so lets go all out with that.

I am still of the opinion that DJDeath's sub thread is the most well thought out and
"fair" treatment of sub modifications:

http://www.navyfield.com/board/view.asp?Num=174930&Sort=D08&Order=re_upday&PageSize=20&Page=2&Ctg_1=&Ctg_2=&Ctg_3=


And for people calling for less HE damage, consider this: The amount of munitions it takes
to sink a BB as a proportion of the total is VASTLY higher for subs. In an SS1, trying to
sink a BB2 or 3 will probably take 1/3 to 1/2 of your torp supply, and that's *with* KM
proxy torps for the times you miss.



And I have a problem with the request for no long winded posts, the reality is that subs
NEED long posts, since they are effected by, and effect, every other ship in the game.
Simply saying "increase dive time" doesn't fully convey what needs to happen.

Free3play's and Ramp4ge's suggestions are both excellent. Either of them, or a
combination of the two, should present a very viable solution to the
submarine "problem."

--Helms

@Alstein

1.What? That makes no sense >_<
2.No. No tampering with the speed/range trade off with torps.
3.Sure
4. That sounds like a decent proposal.
5. Yeah, the blast radius is way too large for the damage DC does.
6. We are NOT tripling sub air time. I'm not sure about exact numbers but SS3/4 go under
for 3 or 4 minutes, was it? That would allow them to be under for the near-entirety of the
match.
7. You only let them fire in periscope depth, right? No to the torp increase. No to the
sonar thingy. Other than that, good idea.
8. How else do we protect ourselves from subs?
9. When something is buffed, typically they nerf something else to balance it, unless the
buff was ABSOLUTELY necessary. Your buff is massive and contains no counterpoint. No.
10. FINALLY AN IDEA I LOVE!!! I would really love to be able to strip away my deck gun as
they waste displacement, but I've learned to live with it.

@jimmyawsome
1. ram4ge beat me to it. Poor you. Sorry. Suck it up.
2. Yeah, but all those torps don't kill ships in a 1 inch radius around it.
3. Right underneath the hull, but it doesn't change too much on surface ships' hulls if
the explosion is on the side.
4. Your point?
5. When I'm in my SS4, I have no trouble sinking BBs with my massively OPd torps. They are
3rd, and it is barely a difference to me.

1. Meh
2. Most bootleg idea I have ever seen. No.
3. That's not fair to the DDs and FFs who either have no T-slots, or their T-slots are
tiny. BBs, on the other hand, can only use T-slots if they don't run AA. CVs have no
t-slots, so are you going to screw them over?
4. Sounds reasonable, maybe lower it to 1-2 depending on what weapons are being used.
5. No. Why can't a DD driver who is new to the game and doesn't understand manual have to
use it for ASW. Now granted that the auto-"fix" patch did make it bad. I personally would
like auto to go back to loss of accuracy revision.

"Making bbs the counter to the thing intended to counter it doesn't make any sense.
But neither is making the thing intended to counter subs a ship that no one wants to
use and without rewards for killing subs."

Not to mention the fact that the class that's designed to counter the submarine can be
swept off the map with 1 torp that may or may not even hit it.

What i want is a 3rd class of high teir ships designed specifically for support while
making the sub anti bb. Basically making the counter to subs a high lvl dd with fantastic
aa and asw.

Making bbs the counter to the thing intended to counter it doesn't make any sense. But
neither is making the thing intended to counter subs a ship that no one wants to use and
without rewards for killing subs.

Sure SDE can find other ways to fix it. But that wont solve the problem either making
subs capable of killing an entire flank or simply kill a ship before dying.

1) @ Jimmy - A valid argument does not constitute NOT removing a feature/failure because
you do not benefit from it personally or it or "just because you have it you cant take it
away from me" - Warning here Jimmy if you are about to argue with me, i'll nuke that too
so dont waste your breath or finger prints.

I have hidden your other posts and others as well as they add no further value.

Again, keep this from being infamatory.

What changes can be made for the greater good or playing experience for ALL players?

Now if you have added your suggestions in here, please refrain from reacting to statements
that wind you up, instead debate or spot the physical flaws in a concept but show reason
behind it, "you just suck and have no idea" (Insert raspberry blow here) is not going to
be tolerated.

Discuss

Be reasonable

Be Clear

Be brief

Or dont post, and dont give me another sub thread to set on fire please

let SS1 and SS2 in blitz so the FF, DD and CL can learn how to ASW
make it direct hit by torps to do damg. (only in blitz)

NERF that KM ss machine gun doing damg. to ships

ADD: it took 12 torps to a L2 to sink it (must have had bulge)
no 1 wave of torps but 3 wave of torps from a SS4 ( only got 14K XP for that kill).
In a BB3 when i sink a L2 i get 44K XP

NOTE: I have NOT read the 4 pages behind this- but by request I am posting this here for
some of you to mull over.

As I was writing a thought, I realized what MAY BE the
best way of analyzing the SS and its ability.

An ss4 is able to sink a bb4 with its first FULL wave of
torps. Now this is also enough to seriously cripple a bb5/6.
The first front full wave of torps = approximately 6
torpedos.

However, from a Kitakami (the TW of NF) 5 torpedos will
do minimal damage to the ships.

Perhaps making the SS subs have the attack strength of a
kita long distance torp (with the short range PLEASE
because I think the world would prefer subs not shooting
halfway across the map. hehe).

This is just a small suggestion to you.

I BELIEVE this will help ALL parties in this situation.

SUBS would not feel so weak to the surface, and they have
SOME strength which allows for the FUN of playing the NF
version of the SS.

This will also benefit the BB (big brother) of the game,
who believe the SS is overpowered because of the damage
they do to them. which makes the BB players happy also.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE NOTE NOTE: the damage of a torp does not have to be AS WEAK as a Kita torp, BUT maybe
a little stronger. HOWEVER, a kita torp up close still does some serious damage to
boats...i watched a Kita the other day full broad side drop on an monty and sink it (NO
BULGE????)

Have hidden a couple of posts to stop this from becoming a whine fest.

However some very good feedback here gents

@yogibr

this is JUST 1 suggestion way back, check the OP date
Link: http://www.navyfield.com/board/view.asp?
Num=131587&Sort=D08&Order=re_upday&PageSize=20&Page=3&Ctg_1=&Ctg_2=&
Ctg_3=

you can all so use search and check all sub suggestions OP date's.

I all so don't agree with re-doing them pre patch, I belive current patch is ok, just
need a lot more tweeks

cheers
Megadone