SweenyTodd wrote:

*@ megadone from what i have seen from you, you just want all ss to be equal in
battle, personally i worked hard to get to where i am (no prem) and dont want a lvl
40 ss to be equal to my lvl 60 ss, as a skilled low lvl ss driver it is possible to kill
higher lvl ss

proxy torps and the km: from what ive seen km torps have less dmg than all other
nations torps at lvl, and the damage from these gets lower the further away the
torp goes off, no problem there

subs need to be more fragile on the surface but have more air

the number of torps ss carry are fine where they are

subs speed is well balanced as is, if you want that sub to not catch your bb drop the
200 bulge you have to keep his torps from doing anything (bulge protects way more
than it should)*

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1 - get glasse's you obviuslly can't see, all my suggestions are based on a overall
nerf/buff, not 1 at a time. You say I like all subs to be equal? WRONG, BUT they
shouled be CLOSE to it, just as Cv's are and BB's are, the only SHIP LINE where
diference betwin nations is HUGE are SUBS....and most IMBA comes from KM.
so I beg to differ your oppinion, and your seeing it all wrong.

in short, they SHOULED be close to each other betwin nations, same as all other
ships, thers allways thet 1-2 wich are beter, but NOT by a huge margen KM sub has.

2 - proxy torps DO have less dmg, what you fail to see and count in is this...
MN sub shots 6 torps, 3-4 of them hit the target others MISS, I'm not gona count but
do the math for dmg(overall).
KM sub shots 6 torps, all 6 hit the target, now count the dmg(overall).

you'll see thet KM subs have 0 or close to 0 dmg DISADVANTAGE, infact they have an
advantage.

I know what your gona say, IJN SS4 bla bla bla, look at my suggestion, I all so
suggested they get less tubes for IJN(front), thus providing less DMG in a salvo.

so excuse me, but KM has enuf dmg if not more.
lets not eaven bring the game stats when I got a DUD from 6 torps in a row, + 2nd
salvo 3 DUD's.... if I had/used KM sub, I wouled WASTE less torps and acctually hit
something, now wouled I?

prox are a HUGE advantage and if ther TRAJECTORY wouled normally miss, THEY
need to have 50% less dmg, PERIOD.
if the TRAJECTORY is right on target or clinching it, full dmg... simple as thet.

3 - agreed, as stated 50 times before, but ONLY IF SPEED IS CAPED, a sub runing
with 35-40 knots is IMBA, cap shouled be on 35, PERIOD.

as some allready sad, subs need ENUF speed to get close to target NOT chashing it.

4 - well, agree and disagree ther.
- you need a but load of torps to sink 1 BB5+ with 200+ buldge, meaning your left
with only enuf torps to sink 1 more, or if you finde a BB with less buldge 3, however
BB's shoulden't be your primary target, so this is a debatable topic...
- all nation subs EXCEPT KM, waste a lot of torps for NOTHING, tnx to dud torps,
hence why incrise for some subs woulden't be thet bad, SPECIALY if torp dmg is
reduced.

5 - a BB with 200+ buldge is gona last how long? 30s? so excuse me but your logic
ther is wrong, A LOT of BB's have less armor spread oround CUZ of buldge...and why
buldge? so they don't get SINKED by 3 torp hits(sub torps).

so you see BB need buldge as well as subs need AIR, removing it=death, same as
Sub's regarding air... remove it=death(aka surface food as it shouled be)

thing is, subs CAN avoide ASW to a DEGREE, while BB's can't when a 35+ knots sub
is next to you...you can't run away... FYI circling oround sub doesn't work for KM
subs...remember proxy? they go under and explode on other side.. tsk tsk

removing buldge makes BB's food, wich is funny not to say the least, BUFFING
buldge wouled make Sub's INEFFECTIVE....

so no, I don't touch buldge cuz it's fine, however subs are not, and suggestions
shouled be made for ALL subs, not just the sub you play.

as Ramp sad use this for constructive suggestions, not whining...or in this case,
don't ASUME to much... if you have questions rather ask them then pointing fingers.

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*Edited Rogue

cheers
Megadone

"as for those of you who want splash damage from torps to be less, consider that an
explosion underwater (even a direct torp hit) works on water compression (water is
incompressible) the water translates the explosive force into pressure on the hull of
the ship (this is why ss were designed to take tons of pressure, so that DCs and
torps would do less) causing damage and leaks/flooding depending on how close the
explosion was to the hull of the ship (the closer the more pressure because the
pressure was still concentrated) "

Water is an extremely poor conductor for blast forces (Shock waves). In a torpedo,
you're talking about a few hundred pounds of explosive..Generally equal to about
700 pounds of TNT. If you detonated that 100 yards away from a battleship at 4
meters below the surface, you would get lots of water falling down, a bit of a wave,
and zero damage to the ship.

Remember Operation Crossroads? Numerous major warships suffered almost ZERO
damage while sitting atop a 23 kiloton nuclear bomb in shallow water. The ships that
were damaged were damaged by the 94 foot tall wave that the explosion caused.
The actual blast caused relatively little damage to the fleet. In fact, the only major
loss attributed directly to the blast itself was the Arkansas, which was only some 170
yards from the blast...

And that was a 23 kiloton nuclear bomb.

What's a torpedo with a 700 pound warhead going to do?

For the blast to have any real effect, it'd have to be gigantic, and it'd have to be
close. The blast wave itself of a 23 kiloton nuclear bomb hardly effected ships 1,000
yards from the center of the blast..The 93 foot wave caused by the blast is what
caused most of the damage.

A dept charge was effective for the same reason a a modern torpedo exploding
directly under the hull of a ship was. It would cause momentary loss of buoyancy
(Since an effective depth charge would actually explode near and below the
submarine) and cause damage that way, as this gif demonstrates:



Splash damage makes no sense. You should not be rewarded for missing the target.
To compensate for this, remove duds.

Simple.

The patch about subs being hit by shells is deadly is an OK for me. It is realistic that way.
But now.....
- do increase the O2 Air Time when dived.
Decrease the Sights of an SS down to a periscope view.
-The periscope view will move like a gun turret.
-Add 4 dive options. Surfaced, Periscope Depth,Dive Level 2, Critical Dive
-In periscope depth, you can use the periscope and sonarman works
-In Dive Level 2, the speed will cut to half(Silent Run), The enemy DD can not detect you
but you cannot detect anything either.You cannot fire your torpedo in this depth and
cannot raise periscope.
In Critical dive you cannot move and your health will decrease because the pressure will
crush your hull
-Subs equipped with Sonarman can detect ships and shows as a red dot in the minimap but it
cant be seen in the battlefield unless the periscope view is move towards the red dot's
location. ( in Surface or Periscope Depth)
-A scout plane cannot send the enemy's location to a sub while it is submerged
-The Torpedo is a deadly weapon. do not nerf it if you follow things i said above.

here is a video example in youtube that is created by a Navyfield Player years ago before
subs is implemented in NF. I think you should have followed his idea about the submarine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVxgJ9k9yuw
(highlight, Ctrl C and paste in in the adress web.)

@altsein

1. Not 100% increase for air tanks. Nerf damage, buff air to about 150% of current air.
2. Make detection depend on the sub's speed. More speed = larger radius for detection,
less speed = smaller radius for detection. Ad yes, keep team detection.
3. Lower DC splash/damage and lower HH range slightly. That's it.
4. I can never use up all my torps on my SS3 and SS4. # of torps needs to decrease if
anything unless there is a MAJOR damage nerf.
5. If you want your detection radius to 25% of what it is, I think the sub should go
25-35% regular speed.
6. If you get that, couldn't you just use maximum dive the whole way to BBs while DDs try
to kill you but fail epically because of your proposed damage nerf to 10% and when you get
to the BB line, you get closer to the surface. Fail topic. Make a longer transition time
between maximum->regular, like 30-60 seconds, and maybe it'll be implemented.

@ megadone from what i have seen from you, you just want all ss to be equal in
battle, personally i worked hard to get to where i am (no prem) and dont want a lvl
40 ss to be equal to my lvl 60 ss, as a skilled low lvl ss driver it is possible to kill
higher lvl ss

proxy torps and the km: from what ive seen km torps have less dmg than all other
nations torps at lvl, and the damage from these gets lower the further away the torp
goes off, no problem there

subs need to be more fragile on the surface but have more air

the number of torps ss carry are fine where they are

subs speed is well balanced as is, if you want that sub to not catch your bb drop the
200 bulge you have to keep his torps from doing anything (bulge protects way more
than it should)

as for those of you who want splash damage from torps to be less, consider that an
explosion underwater (even a direct torp hit) works on water compression (water is
incompressible) the water translates the explosive force into pressure on the hull of
the ship (this is why ss were designed to take tons of pressure, so that DCs and
torps would do less) causing damage and leaks/flooding depending on how close the
explosion was to the hull of the ship (the closer the more pressure because the
pressure was still concentrated)

Air just air olders BB?you touch maybe the k2 in I.Q.balance to know evrything sure not.
The subs players is want more not all my idea suggested but some like that:
-Air some +100%-doubled.
-Hard detection* not share informaton with team.
-ASW :decrese DC splash,HH range and 2-3 sec more to explode just in direct contact.
-More torpedos a board,and decrese dude torps 95%.
-Silence mod* in a half speed -75% range detection.
-Remove critical dive,my suggest is full speed in maxim dive 10% damage for ASW.
Whend is improve the acustic torpedos i accept scout with dc and 60% missed.

Instead of suggestions, this has turned into a massive "IT'S NOT FAIR!" whine
thread.

Congrats.

Submarine balance is not going to be as simple as "Nerf this buff that." Submarines
were so badly implemented and their gameplay is so shallow that one small
adjustment is going to require readjustment of the entire system.

This is why my suggestion handles every element of submarine gameplay, making it
all around more three-dimensional and fluid, with adjustments to the subs
themselves, their weapons, the methods of detecting them and the methods of
attacking them.

So instead of crying about the nerf, why don't we all work on ways to make
Submarine gameplay more then the farce it currently is, and has been since their
release? We've got SDE's ear, here (Or so it appears..) We should take the
opportunity to try and make submarines what they should've been all along..a fluid,
three-dimensional, tangible element in this game. And that isn't going to happen
without a major overhaul, not simple adjustments.

@Eradiactor1

As well as people that truly believe they aren't overpowered, without either being a
"power hungry sub driver" or a troll, which I assume you're attempting to be right now.

"@snailgod

First, everyone would have to agree that subs are overpowered. Not everyone does,
and not all of them only drives subs either."

There will always be people who disagree because they love the overpoweredness that subs
give them, as well as people who just want to be trolls

well, nerf everything and give the subs more air. i think that'll do fine